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Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

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Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#191

Post by petcat »

ceejayoz wrote: post #172
ronsor wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why do we need to attach riders / sneak in legislation? Because they can't agree on anything normally, so the only way to make changes is to shove them in with things they must agree on. > What changes could we make to the constitution to avoid this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-subject_rule Multiple states already have this.

Scoping the single subject gets a bit tough, in practice.

It works just fine for the vast majority of US states, including all the largest ones (California, New York, Texas). I don't think the federal government is special here.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#192

Post by Gunax »

pacoWebConsult wrote: post #163
Gunax wrote: post #159

This is going to be controversial because it steps into the shutdown blame game. I think I am more interested in the mechanics of how this happens. Why do we need to attach riders / sneak in legislation? What changes could we make to the constitution to avoid this?

The federal government has grown immensely since the early 20th century due to the interpretations of the commerce clause allowing more and more federal legislation and rules to broadly be applied to essentially override state legislation. The 10th amendment exists for a reason. The system wasn't intended for congress to even control something like this in the first place.

We definitely are straining the rules. I think we actually want a federal government like this. The reality on the ground is that most people want things like FDA and FCC at the federal level.

Maybe we just need to change the constitution--which I know is technically possible but im practically it's frozen. It's like a legacy API no one wants to touch.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#193

Post by hamdingers »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #169
candiddevmike wrote: post #149

The party of small government killing a new, billion dollar industry because Mitch McConnell's state beverage is seeing declining sales.

I thought that was because of the tit-for-tat with Canada. I'd think a joint and a glass of bourbon would go hand-in-hand. Personally, I don't drink or smoke, but I think the "war on drugs" has been a miserable failure that has been, for the most part, a footgun.

> the "war on drugs" has been a miserable failure that has been, for the most part, a footgun.

It has accomplished everything its proponents hoped for and much more.

"You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities”

- John Ehrlichman, assistant to the president for domestic affairs under Richard Nixon

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#194

Post by Vegenoid »

Gunax wrote: post #184
tastyfreeze wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single subject bill amendment. Several states require single subject bills in State legislature. The same must be required at the federal level. The pushback has always been "then nothing will get done". From where I am standing that would be a good thing. No more sneaking shit in at the last minute. Vote on every single issue. People will still try to sneak stuff in. I remember seeing a video of a Minnesota legislat…

Hmm, I've never heard of this. My initial gut reaction is that this sounds good but the definition of 'single subject' is dubious. With enough leeway and creativity, anything can be a single subject. But if it works, then maybe it's what we need.

Frankly, there are a ton of laws that seem dubious and underspecified to a person with an engineering mindset. This is by design, and it is the reason we have so many judges - because writing laws that clearly specify how they apply to every possible situation is often impossible. The law tries to make its intent clear, tries to lay out reasonably specific outlines, but necessarily must rely on the interpretation of those who judge the application of laws to cases.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#196

Post by eszed »

bloppe wrote: post #189
tastyfreeze wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Single subject bill amendment. Several states require single subject bills in State legislature. The same must be required at the federal level. The pushback has always been "then nothing will get done". From where I am standing that would be a good thing. No more sneaking shit in at the last minute. Vote on every single issue. People will still try to sneak stuff in. I remember seeing a video of a Minnesota legislat…

Alaska is effectively a one-party state. At the federal level, you almost always need compromise to clear a filibuster, and it's easier to find compromise if you can draw on more subjects. Maybe the Democrats get cheaper health care while the Republicans get a giant bust of Trump installed on the former site of the Lincoln memorial. Neither measure would pass in isolation, but together they might.

So they could agree to pass two bills. This would require the two "sides" to trust each other, but it could (ideally would) also function to build trust, which would be a good thing.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#197

Post by mschuster91 »

iammjm wrote: post #153
candiddevmike wrote: post #149

The party of small government killing a new, billion dollar industry because Mitch McConnell's state beverage is seeing declining sales.

A similar thing can be observed in Germany: the most anti-cannabis state is the state that produces the most alcohol (Bavaria)

That's less because Bavaria makes beer, otherwise the wine states would also impede cannabis.

The problem is that Söder and his CSU are obviously following the old Nixon attitude of targetting cannabis to hit left-wings [1]:

> You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities.

And then you got the absolute deranged ones, like Marlene "Cannabis ist verboten, weil es eine illegale Droge ist" (cannabis is banned because it's an illegal drug") Mortler or Daniela "Cannabis ist kein Brokkoli" (cannabis ain't broccoli) Ludwig [2]. Imagine, these two utter failures were the official drug policy heads.

[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-...

[2] https://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/legalisierung-von-c...

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#198

Post by petcat »

tastyfreeze wrote: post #175
rootusrootus wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devil's advocate, the positive of allowing legislation to include unrelated riders is that it promotes compromise. And compromise is how a healthy democracy should operate.

The compromise should be on the content of the bill specific to the subject. It is not a compromise to allow a rider that funnels money to some pet project. That is buying votes.

Oftentimes there can be no compromise on the specific subject. So the bill is either DOA or just immediately passed without any debate.

Allowing several issues to be passed as a singular unit provides opportunity for an agreement to be made about several issues at once. Think of it like a Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#199

Post by loeg »

candiddevmike wrote: post #149

The party of small government killing a new, billion dollar industry because Mitch McConnell's state beverage is seeing declining sales.

There is no party of small government in the US. Libertarians have a long-standing alliance with mainstream Republicans, but they are unambiguously the smaller and weaker member.

Re: Hemp ban hidden inside government shutdown bill

#200

Post by dude250711 »

iammjm wrote: post #153
candiddevmike wrote: post #149

The party of small government killing a new, billion dollar industry because Mitch McConnell's state beverage is seeing declining sales.

A similar thing can be observed in Germany: the most anti-cannabis state is the state that produces the most alcohol (Bavaria)

Best of luck to them! I am not forced to inhale beer while walking down the street, yet there is seemingly always a pothead around.
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