Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

defensemirror.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 227 posts

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#151

Post by jleyank »

walletdrainer wrote: post #113
jleyank wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The F35 is a fighter-bomber/light-bomber. Others are air superiority platforms. Different tools for different situations.

F35 has far better bvr capabilities than the eurofighter and in practice ends up being far more useful in the air superiority role. Eurofighter is really only good for peacetime patrols, the F35 will detect and shoot down enemies in real conflict far before the Eurofighter can do anything. In a bizarre hypothetical conflict you would certainly not want to engage a F35 in an Eurofighter, the Eurofighter would be knock…

One would hope, as the Eurofighter is a 20-year-old design. There are older fighters that serve their purposes quite well, but the F35 will end up being compared against fighters yet to appear. And I wonder whether any of these birds will be effective during the day in a modern battlefield before the missile and radar systems are taken out.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#152

Post by paganel »

mongol wrote: post #145
paganel wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m Romanian, write this comment from Bucharest, a lot closer to Donbass than both France and UK. If those guys are “disgusted” about Russia then it’s their choice, but they shouldn’t re-create the Crimean War and battle the Russians on our (Romania’s) soil, with the destruction that would accompany such a war. If anything, I’d rather actively choose Russia’s side on this against the West, at least Russia is the devi…

This surprises me. Is that how you see it, that countries like UK and France may choose to battle Russia on your soil? What would forego that in your scenario?

Geography itself, as they aren’t going to battle the Russians in Lorraine or in Belgium/Netherlands, just opposite the UK.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#153

Post by SilverElfin »

throw-the-towel wrote: post #147
SilverElfin wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think we can square it exactly. The US isn’t perfect and has deep issues as well. But it just depends on which values you care about. For me, I think despite problems, the US has a more trustworthy system of democracy than most countries. And as far as democratic values like free speech - it’s far above literally any other country in the world in protecting those rights. These things alone make it special - I…

> Sure it replaced a monarchy, but that monarchy was actually quite liberal and photos of Iran from that era show a culture that was very different from today. Well duh, pictures of pretty girls from the (very small) upper classes sell better than pictures of the victims of Savak.

Do you think Iran is less or more aligned to liberal values or the general notion of “freedom” under the current theocracy than under the previous monarchy?

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#154

Post by [deleted] »

bix6 wrote: post #31
jacquesm wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say it was weakness rather than a sense of disgust about anything war related. Europe is tired of it, and precisely because of that may well end up in another major war.

That has more to do with their geography than their disgust no?

[deleted]

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#155

Post by tick_tock_tick »

jshier wrote: post #62
petcat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no "president of Europe" who can unilaterally decide to put a bunch of tariffs on anything imported from the US into Europe without regard to how it affects the individual member states. And it's not even clear if it's legal in the US. The Supreme Court is in the process of deciding that after a dozen US states sued about it.

It's clear that it's not legal, the Supreme Court is simply in the process of deciding whether it can happen anyway.

I mean Congress 100% gave him the power to do the only thing that's going to save us is that so many of the conservative justices are fans of the nondelegation doctrine.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#156

Post by tick_tock_tick »

drooopy wrote: post #68

It requires some level of skill and talent to be able to cause this amount of damage to the soft power and influence that the US projected around the world in less than a year. Throughout my 40 years on this planet, Pax Americana was a constant that seemed to hold the world together (+/-). It's scary to see it vanish and with such speed and efficiency.

> amount of damage to the soft power and influence that the US projected around the world in less than a year.

Has that happened? Give us something concrete a real example of that. Europe seems to be increasing it's dependency on the USA with large military spendings. They bent the knee really quickly during the last round of trade talks....

If this is a damaged USA's soft power what we've really learned is that we've been wildly overestimating other countries.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#157

Post by tick_tock_tick »

eCa wrote: post #64
fxtentacle wrote: post #4

The EU is worried about Trump being unpredictable, so they are pushing hard for sovereignty. See their initiatives to leave US clouds. This decision is completely in line with that strategy and, probably, also what the US military expected to happen.

> leave US clouds The pressure to leave US controlled cloud providers actually started way back with the US Cloud Act. I’ve been surprised that that process has been as slow as it has been, especially for the public sector and adjacent services.

> I’ve been surprised that that process has been as slow as it has been, especially for the public sector and adjacent services.

Europe can't seem to get a tech sector bootstrapped no matter what it does and European governments seem to be much more comfortable with the USA having full access to everything they do then risk running on a EU cloud.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#158

Post by tick_tock_tick »

barbazoo wrote: post #49
SilverElfin wrote: post #5

Geopolitically this rift between the US and EU is great for adversaries like Russia and China.

I’m starting to question thinking of China as our adversary, what makes us think that way? Russia, sure they’re actively fighting against our allies. China?

Well classically the EU has been a supporter of free expression, human rights, and all that jazz but lately that seems to mean a lot less to them.

> Russia, sure they’re actively fighting against our allies. China?

I assume this is a joke because China is actively helping Russia with weapons, intelligence, and Zelenskiy has even stated China is actively manufacturing weapons inside Russia for Russian use in Ukraine.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#159

Post by tick_tock_tick »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #40
F3nd0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should the EU not see an expansive authoritarian superpower as an adversary, or, at the very least, a real threat to its continued existence and sovereignty?

China needs Europe to support its export economy because there will never be enough domestic demand to prevent a deflationary spiral. Europe is a rational actor China can expect to act rationally in trade, and Europe can benefit from that. The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship…

> The US has nothing to offer Europe except LNG that Europe cannot produce itself, or obtain from China at better price or quality. Canada has ~200 years of LNG reserves and can ship to Europe from LNG Canada.

This line here makes it clear to me you've never really researched any of this. Canada doesn't have the ability to export that to anywhere but the USA and refuses to even consider building another pipeline.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#160

Post by kazen44 »

dblangford wrote: post #76
kogus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an American, I am also gratified to see the EU take steps toward independence from US foreign policy. Independence doesn't mean enmity; it just means that the EU and US should both be adults in the room, reaching decisions on equal terms. If one takes a longer view of things, the period from WW2 to now is very much an anomaly reflecting relative European weakness in the aftermath of that war's physical and moral d…

US has historically taken the lead in policy regarding Russia to avoid nuclear proliferation in Europe. If the US umbrella is perceived as being unreliable then I think that is what will see.

this is already happening. France has already stated it will extend its nuclear umbrella to the rest of the EU. the discussion about either an EU integrated army compared to nato is also back on the table after being basically politically dead for nearly 60 years.
Post reply on HN