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European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

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Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#21

Post by saubeidl »

tr352 wrote: post #16
saubeidl wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

The EU needs China. No green deal without Chinese batteries, solar cells and rare earth metals.

And China needs the EU.

No rising Chinese middle class without the world's largest wealthy consumer market.

A match made in heaven ;)

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#22

Post by petcat »

krige wrote: post #17
petcat wrote: post #10

> The decision follows the withdrawal of the U.S. from the joint AWACS replacement program in July 2024, which left the initiative without its strategic and financial foundation. Is this implying that USA was paying for it previously? It sounds like they're blaming "noise polution", but also that they're not getting the planes for free anymore?

No. Europeans were paying for theirs but, once US backed out of their own purchases, the cost per unit rose sharply and was no longer sustainable.

I see so this isn't really a concerted effort by EU nations to gain independence on defense technology. It's just that USA didn't want to buy the planes anymore so it became too expensive for everyone else to as well.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#23

Post by askchina »

jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

[flagged]

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#24

Post by askchina »

jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

[flagged]

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#25

Post by saubeidl »

askchina wrote: post #23
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

[flagged]

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Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#26

Post by anamax »

saubeidl wrote: post #7
SilverElfin wrote: post #5

Geopolitically this rift between the US and EU is great for adversaries like Russia and China.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

> The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump.

From the fall of the Berlin wall until the Ukraine invasion, the US saw Russia as more of an adversary than Europe saw Russia.

Yes, even after Russia annexed Crimea. In fact, it's only this year that Europe has started to significantly increase defense spending, three years after Russia invaded Ukraine. And, even then the most aggressive increase plans end up short of where spending was during the Cold War.

Every US president after Clinton (and maybe Clinton as well) urged European countries, especially NATO ones, to keep funding defense and they cut instead.

It turns out that the cowboys were right, that there was a bear in the woods, and that "soft power" wasn't power.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#28

Post by F3nd0 »

saubeidl wrote: post #7
SilverElfin wrote: post #5

Geopolitically this rift between the US and EU is great for adversaries like Russia and China.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

Why should the EU not see an expansive authoritarian superpower as an adversary, or, at the very least, a real threat to its continued existence and sovereignty?

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#29

Post by itopaloglu83 »

petcat wrote: post #10

> The decision follows the withdrawal of the U.S. from the joint AWACS replacement program in July 2024, which left the initiative without its strategic and financial foundation. Is this implying that USA was paying for it previously? It sounds like they're blaming "noise polution", but also that they're not getting the planes for free anymore?

Foreign Military Sales (FMS) programs allows the participating countries to share most of the setup cost, except some high end technology that is country specific, it’s mainly divided by per airframe basis.

When you have the US Air Force in a program and they purchase a bazillion aircraft, things get relatively affordable.

Well, the US left and nobody want to spend billions of dollars into the development of this aircraft (most of the problems are the airframe not radar I heard, citation needed) and end up with just two aircraft and then deal with internal news about how they spend billions of dollars per aircraft when commercial airlines are so much cheaper.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#30

Post by nxor »

jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

[flagged]
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