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European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

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Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#11

Post by saubeidl »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #9
macintux wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your theme, but I think in this case it has less to do with the grenades Trump is randomly exploding and more to do with the E-7 simply being the wrong solution.

In the past it was useful for nations to opt for an American solution even if it wasn’t the most optimal precisely because of America being a dependable and trustworthy ally.

One could also phrase it more cynically as protection money.

Now that no more protection is offered, there's no point in spending the money.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#12

Post by wbl »

macintux wrote: post #6
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

I don't disagree with your theme, but I think in this case it has less to do with the grenades Trump is randomly exploding and more to do with the E-7 simply being the wrong solution.

How is the E-7 the wrong solution? It's worked fine for Australia.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#13

Post by jacquesm »

macintux wrote: post #6
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

I don't disagree with your theme, but I think in this case it has less to do with the grenades Trump is randomly exploding and more to do with the E-7 simply being the wrong solution.

That may well be, but if there had been a different person in the White House (or what's left of it) they would have most likely bought it anyway. They're just not going to come out and say it but the 'strategic' element is what points to that, I doubt the US would have withdrawn in Juli if not for Trump, Hegseth and their buddies. This is just one more program they've gutted.

https://breakingdefense.com/2025/06/air-force-cancels-e-7-we...

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#14

Post by kogus »

usrnm wrote: post #8
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

> The damage to our future world order I don't think "damage" is the right word, especially outside of the US. Changes aren't necessarily bad, and, as someone living in the EU, I actually like the current trend.

As an American, I am also gratified to see the EU take steps toward independence from US foreign policy. Independence doesn't mean enmity; it just means that the EU and US should both be adults in the room, reaching decisions on equal terms.

If one takes a longer view of things, the period from WW2 to now is very much an anomaly reflecting relative European weakness in the aftermath of that war's physical and moral destruction. There is no intrinsic reason that the US should take the lead on, say, policy toward Russia. Quite the opposite.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#15

Post by jacquesm »

usrnm wrote: post #8
jacquesm wrote: post #2

There will be a lot more decisions like this one. For the war in Ukraine and anything immediate they will buy American stuff if there is no EU alternative (and for many things there just isn't right now, there are too many dependencies). But the tide has changed, for 'in' it is now to 'out'. It is abundantly clear the USA is no longer a dependable ally, and that it will use all kinds of strings attached to hobble wha…

> The damage to our future world order I don't think "damage" is the right word, especially outside of the US. Changes aren't necessarily bad, and, as someone living in the EU, I actually like the current trend.

Talk to me in 10 years or so. Changes can be very bad if they are rapid.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#16

Post by tr352 »

saubeidl wrote: post #7
SilverElfin wrote: post #5

Geopolitically this rift between the US and EU is great for adversaries like Russia and China.

The US doesn't really see Russia as an adversary under Trump. Which begs the question, why should the EU see China as an adversary? That's mostly an American thing, the Pacific doesn't really concern us. Maybe alliances will reshuffle in the future?

The EU needs China. No green deal without Chinese batteries, solar cells and rare earth metals.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#17

Post by krige »

petcat wrote: post #10

> The decision follows the withdrawal of the U.S. from the joint AWACS replacement program in July 2024, which left the initiative without its strategic and financial foundation. Is this implying that USA was paying for it previously? It sounds like they're blaming "noise polution", but also that they're not getting the planes for free anymore?

No. Europeans were paying for theirs but, once US backed out of their own purchases, the cost per unit rose sharply and was no longer sustainable.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#18

Post by jacquesm »

kogus wrote: post #14
usrnm wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The damage to our future world order I don't think "damage" is the right word, especially outside of the US. Changes aren't necessarily bad, and, as someone living in the EU, I actually like the current trend.

As an American, I am also gratified to see the EU take steps toward independence from US foreign policy. Independence doesn't mean enmity; it just means that the EU and US should both be adults in the room, reaching decisions on equal terms. If one takes a longer view of things, the period from WW2 to now is very much an anomaly reflecting relative European weakness in the aftermath of that war's physical and moral d…

I wouldn't say it was weakness rather than a sense of disgust about anything war related. Europe is tired of it, and precisely because of that may well end up in another major war.

Re: European Nations Decide Against Acquiring Boeing E-7 Awacs Aircraft

#19

Post by jacquesm »

saubeidl wrote: post #11
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past it was useful for nations to opt for an American solution even if it wasn’t the most optimal precisely because of America being a dependable and trustworthy ally.

One could also phrase it more cynically as protection money. Now that no more protection is offered, there's no point in spending the money.

That's a good point.
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