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Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

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Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#171
post #55
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I politely disagree - it is exactly an industry researcher's purpose to do the risky things that may not work, simply because the rest of the corporation cannot take such risks but must walk on more well-trodden paths. Corporate R&D teams are there to absorb risk, innovate, disrupt, create new fields, not for doing small incremental improvements. "If we know it works, it's not research." (Albert Einstein) I also agre…

Knowledge models, like ontologies, always seem suspect to me; like they promise a schema for crisp binary facts, when the world is full of probabilistic and fuzzy information loosely categorized by fallible humans based on an ever slowly shifting social consensus. Everything from the sorites paradox to leaky abstractions; everything real defies precise definition when you look closely at it, and when you try to abstr…

I have vague notions of there being an entire hidden philosophical/political battlefield (massacre?) behind the whole "are knowledge models/ontologies a realistic goal" debate.

Starting with the sophomoric questions of the optimist who mistakes the possible for the viable: how definite of a thing is "the world", how knowable is it, what is even knowledge... and then back through the more pragmatic: by whom is it knowable, to what degree, and by what means. The mystics: is "the world" the same thing as "the sum of information about the world"? The spooks: how does one study those fields of information which are already agentic and actively resist being studied by changing themselves, such as easily emerge anywhere more than n(D) people gather?

Plenty of food for thought from why ontologies are/aren't a thing. The classical example of how this plays out in the market being search engines winning over internet directories. But that's one turn of the wheel. Look at what search engines grew into quarter century later. What their outgrowths are doing to people's attitude towards knowledge. Different timescale, different picture.

Fundamentally, I don't think human language has sufficient resolution to model large spans of reality within the limited human attention span. The physical limits of human language as information processing device have been hit at some point in the XX century. Probably that 1970s divergence between productivity and wages.

So while LLMs are "computers speak language now" and it's amazing if sad that they cracked it by more data and not by more model, what's more amazing is how many people are continually ready to mistake language for thought. Are they all P-zombies or just obedience-conditioned into emulating ones?!?!?

Practically, what we lack is not the right architecture for "big knowing machine", but better tools for ad-hoc conceptual modeling of local situations. And, just like poetry that rhymes, this is exactly what nobody has a smidgen of interest to serve to consumers, thus someone will just build it in their basement in the hope of turning the tables on everyone. Probably with the help of LLMs as search engines and code generators. Yall better hurry. They're almost done.

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're at most in an "AI Autumn" right now. The real Winter is yet to come.

I assume they’re referring to the previous one.

I still have to understand why you think another AI winter is coming. Everyyyybody is using it, everybody is racing to invent the next big thing. What could go wrong? [apart from a market crash, more related to financial bubble than technical barriers]

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#173

Making LeCun report to Wang was the most boneheaded move imaginable. But… I suppose Zuckerberg knows what he wants, which is AI slopware and not truly groundbreaking foundation models.

What does Meta even want with AI? I suppose they could solve superintelligence and cure cancer and build fusion reactors with it, but that's 100% outside their comfort zone - if they manage to build synthethic conversation partners and synthethic content generators as good or better than the real thing the value of having every other human on the planet registered to one of their social network goes to zero. Which is…

they are out for your clicks and attention minutes

if OpenAI can build a "social" network of completely generated content, that can kill Meta. Even today I venture to guess that most of the engagements in their platforms is not driven by real friends, so an AI driven platform won't be too different, or it might make content generation be so easy as to make your friends engage again.

Apart from it the ludicrous vision of the metaverse seems much more plausible with highly realistic world models

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#174

Making LeCun report to Wang was the most boneheaded move imaginable. But… I suppose Zuckerberg knows what he wants, which is AI slopware and not truly groundbreaking foundation models.

Meta had John Carmack and squandered him. It seems like Meta can get amazing talent but has no idea how to get any value or potential out of them.

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#175
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain this “world model” concept to me? How do you actually interface with a model like this?

He is one of these people who think that humans have a direct experience of reality not mediated by as Alan Kay put it three pounds of oatmeal. So he thinks a language model can not be a world model. Despite our own contact with reality being mediated through a myriad of filters and fun house mirror distortions. Our vision transposes left and right and delivers images to our nerves upside down, for gawd’s sake. He im…

> humans have a direct experience of reality not mediated by as Alan Kay put it three pounds of oatmeal

Is he advocating for philosophical idealism of the mind or does he has an alternate physicalist theory?

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#176
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I think LeCun is underestimating the impact that LLM's and Diffusion models are going to have, even considering the huge impact they're already having. That's no problem as I'm sure whatever LeCun is working on is going to be amazing as well, but an enterprise like Facebook can't have their top researcher work on risky things when there's surefire paths to success still available.

>the huge impact they're already having In the software development world yes, outside of that, virtually none. Yes, you can transcribe a video call in Office, yes, but that's not ground breaking. I dare you to list 10 impacts on different fields, excluding tech and including at least half blue collar fields and at least half white collar fields , at different levels from the lowest to the highest in the company hier…

You already mentioned two fields they have a huge impact on, software development and NLP (this latter one the most impacted so far). Another field that comes to mind is academic research is getting an important boost as well, via semantic search or more advanced stuff like Google's biological cell model which already uncovered new treatments. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of other fields I'm less familiar with (legal, for example). But just these impacts I listed are all huge and they will indirectly have a huge impact on all other areas of human industry, it's just a matter of time. "Software will eat the world" and all that.

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#178
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Meta even want with AI? I suppose they could solve superintelligence and cure cancer and build fusion reactors with it, but that's 100% outside their comfort zone - if they manage to build synthethic conversation partners and synthethic content generators as good or better than the real thing the value of having every other human on the planet registered to one of their social network goes to zero. Which is…

they are out for your clicks and attention minutes if OpenAI can build a "social" network of completely generated content, that can kill Meta. Even today I venture to guess that most of the engagements in their platforms is not driven by real friends, so an AI driven platform won't be too different, or it might make content generation be so easy as to make your friends engage again. Apart from it the ludicrous vision…

Sad to hear it has come to attention minutes, used to be seconds.

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#179

Making LeCun report to Wang was the most boneheaded move imaginable. But… I suppose Zuckerberg knows what he wants, which is AI slopware and not truly groundbreaking foundation models.

That was obviously him getting sidelined. And it's easy to see why. LLMs get results. None of the Yann LeCun's pet projects do. He had ample time to prove that his approach is promising, and he didn't.

I agree. I never understood LeCun's statement that we need to pivot toward the visual aspects of things because the bitrate of text is low while visual input through the eye is high.

Text and languages contain structured information and encode a lot of real-world complexity (or it's "modelling" that).

Not saying we won't pivot to visual data or world simulations, but he was clearly not the type of person to compete with other LLM research labs, nor did he propose any alternative that could be used to create something interesting for end-users.

Re: Yann LeCun to depart Meta and launch AI startup focused on 'world models'

#180
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was obviously him getting sidelined. And it's easy to see why. LLMs get results. None of the Yann LeCun's pet projects do. He had ample time to prove that his approach is promising, and he didn't.

I agree. I never understood LeCun's statement that we need to pivot toward the visual aspects of things because the bitrate of text is low while visual input through the eye is high. Text and languages contain structured information and encode a lot of real-world complexity (or it's "modelling" that). Not saying we won't pivot to visual data or world simulations, but he was clearly not the type of person to compete w…

If LeCun's research has made Meta a powerhouse of video generation or general purpose robotics - the two promising directions that benefit from working with visual I/O and world modeling as LeCun sees it - it could have been a justified detour.

But that sure didn't happen.

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