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Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

blog.getbootstrap.com

41–50 of 92 posts

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#41
post #16

Wow, big news for Bootstrap. I think Matt and Jacob realize the huge impact they've made on the web development community and the potential Bootstrap has to become the jQuery of HTML. New developers may begin to ask, "should I learn HTML or Bootstrap?" It's not a far-fetched idea because the same question is sometimes asked by beginners when "deciding between" jQuery and (vanilla) JavaScript. jQuery plugins are ubiqu…

The whole "lets use jQuery without learning Javascript" thing didn't work out so well for the community.

I know you're being an asshole, but jQuery solves DOM query/manipulation pretty well. Generally, if you use javascript for DOM query/manipulation you're either really stupid or really smart, pick one.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#42
post #31

Hm, I'll be the asshole and point out something that to me is kind of obvious: Bootstrap isn't mainstream enough to warrant it's own foundation/organization. Just looking at the caliber of other projects that have gone this way (at the top of my head: Apache, Drupal, Django, Zope...) and looking at Boostrap I don't think it's even close to the userbase/clout needed to pull this off. Even the maintainers of those othe…

> Bootstrap isn't mainstream enough to warrant it's own foundation/organization What do you mean by "not mainstream enough?" Organizations on Github are simply a convenient place to put one or more projects that are collectively worked on by a group of individuals and do not necessarily have a single core maintainer.

Yeah, that's what a lot of people seem to be missing here: there's mention of an open-source organization on GitHub but no mention that fat and mdo want to start working on Bootstrap full-time and make money off of it.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#43
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole "lets use jQuery without learning Javascript" thing didn't work out so well for the community.

I know you're being an asshole, but jQuery solves DOM query/manipulation pretty well. Generally, if you use javascript for DOM query/manipulation you're either really stupid or really smart, pick one.

I'd say neither--it's just after the first couple document.createElement, you're driven to the brink of insanity. No one chooses that kind of torture, smart or dumb.

jQuery has two big benefits for me: cutting down on verbosity a bit, and on making a cross-browser solution possible. For the latter various polyfills solve the problem effectively, but the verbosity problem still remains.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#44
Bootstrap creator here.

tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far.

Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first time) I'm going to GitHub.

The timing has nothing to do with a disagreement about Bootstrap (seriously, none what so ever), and more to do with us both wanting a change in our own lives for what we do day-to-day. Twitter, the company and product, are both amazing and Jacob and I have worked there for 2.5 years. We're stoked for our next things and we both want to keep working on Bootstrap no matter what. We have an obligation to the community and know it could go much further. (Oh, and yes, I screwed up the date on the post. My bad, yo.)

Bootstrap was created by me at Twitter as a means to make better looking internal tools (I wrote about this on A List Apart awhile back: http://www.alistapart.com/articles/building-twitter-bootstra...). It started off as a simple HTML/CSS thing, then Jacob built plugins on top of it, and we open sourced it together. We made it at Twitter, so when we wanted to open source it, we went to Twitter to ensure it was good to go. Thus, it was named Twitter Bootstrap (originally, "Bootstrap, from Twitter" actually). Now, it's back to just "Bootstrap".

We don't really think of it as the next jQuery, Django, or Drupal. But you can't deny there is something to front-end frameworks like Bootstrap, and that's what we're excited about. HTML and CSS are the two easiest and most basic building blocks of websites. Everyone knows and uses them, and that's a big part of why Bootstrap has grown so much, and can continue to grow more.

No, we weren't "given time" to work on Bootstrap, but that's because it was a project I started on my own to help other engineers. Jacob came in to shape it into a proper open source project and then wrote all the JavaScript plugins (Fun fact: before the jQuery plugins, he wrote a MooTools library on top of it called Tit, which is a type of bird). Anyway, we weren't given time because it wasn't a company priority, naturally, and we're okay with that. We worked on it, at the office or at home, whenever we wanted and folks were generally okay with that as well.

The move to making Bootstrap its own project and organization is a joint one, between myself, Jacob, and Twitter's Open Source team (@cra). The transition will take time, but we need to grow Bootstrap beyond the two of us and Twitter, and into something more. There is really sooooo much potential for making better things on the Web, and we're hoping we can keep that up with the help of the community.

Anyway, we're both stoked to keep working on Bootstrap. It's a great project that can be so much better, and that's pretty damned awesome to us. Twitter has been amazing for both of us and will continue to down the road. We wish nothing but the best for everyone we've worked with.

<3

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#45
post #16

Wow, big news for Bootstrap. I think Matt and Jacob realize the huge impact they've made on the web development community and the potential Bootstrap has to become the jQuery of HTML. New developers may begin to ask, "should I learn HTML or Bootstrap?" It's not a far-fetched idea because the same question is sometimes asked by beginners when "deciding between" jQuery and (vanilla) JavaScript. jQuery plugins are ubiqu…

The whole "lets use jQuery without learning Javascript" thing didn't work out so well for the community.

jQuery might as well be a different language, like c++ vs. c. Can you learn c++ without c, or assembler without learning machine code? Sure.

Actually, in many ways I think learning jQuery before learning vanilla javascript can be an advantage. jQuery is heavy on functional programming techniques, list comprehensions, and such-like. As long as you learn well and don't cut corners I don't see any problems with "learning jQuery" on its own.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#46

Bootstrap creator here. tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far. Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first…

markdotto: you may not think of Bootstrap as "the next JQuerym, Django, or Drupal," but to me (and many others here, I'm sure), it's already a de facto standard for building web app UIs. THANK YOU, and congratulations on the recent move to you and Jacob.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#47

Bootstrap creator here. tl;dr: First, thanks for the love everyone! Jacob and I love seeing people as excited about the future of Bootstrap as us. We're hopeful that this is just the beginning of it. And now, onto answering some of the questions/comments folks have brought up here thus far. Jacob left over a month ago and my last day is next Friday (10/5). He's going to Obvious, and (announcing it here for the first…

Great Otto, thanks and thanks for the Framework, is just perfect for starting to create valids, flexible, fast and responsive websites. Good days at Github :)

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#48
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bootstrap isn't mainstream enough to warrant it's own foundation/organization What do you mean by "not mainstream enough?" Organizations on Github are simply a convenient place to put one or more projects that are collectively worked on by a group of individuals and do not necessarily have a single core maintainer.

Yeah, that's what a lot of people seem to be missing here: there's mention of an open-source organization on GitHub but no mention that fat and mdo want to start working on Bootstrap full-time and make money off of it.

I didn't see where in the post, or comments here where that was said. Do you have a source?

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#49
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds to me like the two guys left twitter and have decided to continue work on bootstrap. Being open source is there a reason they can't? I don't know much regarding the rules of open source but is it possible they could just fork it and continue where they left off (without twitters blessing)?

This is true, but I imagine that they couldn't keep the Bootstrap name, though that's up to Twitter if they want to force the devs out of Bootstrap development and 'defend their mark.'

It would take 2 days for a fork to replace bootstrap in that case. Look at Hudson vs Jenkins.

Re: Bootstrap Maintainers Leave Twitter

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If not for jQuery, I'd have probably never learned Javascript, because I would have gotten frustrated with dealing with weird cross-browser gotchas too much to ever get anything done. As I learned I wrote a lot of code I'm not too proud of, looking back on it. But I grew to learn and love Javascript and I honestly have jQuery to thank for that.

Writing code you aren't proud of is step one towards writing code you are proud of. Of course the problem with that is the code you ARE proud of rapidly becomes the kind you aren't proud of as you learn more.

We have a similar saying at the office. "Every programmer hates every other programmer's code. Given enough time, they'll eventually hate their own code."
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