What's really insane is GOP literally sent all these immigrants on buses and planes to places like Chicago. Now they've hired all the proud boys, patriot front, etc, paid them during shutdown, gave them camo and military gear, and authorized them to terrorize everyone. There's no legal path to justice. It's an impossible situation constructed by people who hate their neighbors and want to literally kill them. It's so much worse than this blog post can capture or any comment. This shit is heinous.
I Want You to Understand Chicago
341–350 of 532 posts
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#342Earlier quoted context omitted.
Laws and morality often conflict. The US is currently attacking foreign citizens outside the United States without due process. Israel has multiple government members currently with warrants for arrest for genocide. Just because something is legal or illegal doesn't make it right.
> The US is currently attacking foreign citizens outside the United States without due process. This is how Osama Bin Laden justified 9/11. To be clear, virtually all of those being deported do not have a legal right to reside in the United States. The number who are deported erroneously measures in the tens, not the hundreds, but even if it were in the tens of thousands, that would not morally justify the extrajudic…
You assumed for some reason I was talking about deporting people and not attacking people in boats with hellfire missiles.
"Remotely comparable" or not, I was discussing the disconnect between legal and moral.
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#343Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The election was fully determined by inflation. Biden made a reasonable (though incorrect) bet that full employment was more important than price stability. There is credible theory (shared by a very balanced labor economist I follow) that the immigration crisis helped tame the inflation crisis, besides boosting the economy enough for a soft landing: https://fortune.com/2024/04/12/immigration-inflation-economy... A…
Right, so, I'm not making a normative claim about the right about of immigration. I don't know if I'd go so far as to call myself an "open borders" person, but I'm very pro-immigration. Pro-immigration in the sense of believing we benefit from the mix of new Americans we get over our southern border, not in the weird doublespeak sense of appreciating skilled immigration from Europe. But from 2021-2023, we experienced…
That makes sense, and I agree with your assessments about the voting population's priorities. But maybe the inflation / immigration aspects were much more intertwined than we realized.
Maybe (being very generous to him) Biden didn't do a tradeoff between inflation vs employment... maybe the gamble was that increased immigration would boost the economy enough that citizens were not as bothered by the immigrants.
In other words, the very valid "its' the economy stupid" theory would imply that if people can comfortable provide for themselves and their families, they'd be less bothered by what they saw as competition for jobs.
Unfortunately time was not on their side, and inflation did not drop fast enough.
But there might be another angle. An interesting aspect of the economic sentiment and inflation hysteria preceding the election was that data showed that the majority of Americans thought they themselves were doing well, but other Americans were suffering. So the statistical reality was much better than the statistical perception.
This is one reason that led to the term "vibecession" -- data belied the sentiments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibecession
Many have credibly attributed this phenomenon to all the algorithm-driven ragebait content on social media, and certain news media channels (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibecession#Media_influence_an...)
But maybe we still underestimate the size of that effect: it exploited a critical flaw in an otherwise successful economic strategy -- its reliance on "the outsiders." During the time things were improving but still painful, the perception of these outsiders could be exploited to distract from the improvements happening and foment a backlash.
Note it could very well have just happened by accident, but if not... that shows the power of mass perception. The events happening with media platforms leading up to the election may have been (and still are) much more consequential than we realize.
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#344Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m not at all worried about my family being deported for the simple reason that they have legal status to reside in the places where they reside. I wouldn’t have approached it the same way, but for the sole reason that you end up with citizens being inconvenienced. This post wasn’t about citizens having their rights infringed upon, though; it’s obvious from the editorializing that the author does not believe that Am…
You couldn’t be more wrong. That is absolutely not my primary concern. It’s not a concern at all.
So you believe that America has a fundamental right to enforce its immigration laws, and that enforcement of those laws is permissible provided that such enforcement occurs within whatever bounds you deem to be humane, and your only objection to these activities is their real or potential impact on the civil rights of American citizens?
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#345When states choose nullification as a policy to ignore federal law, it’s an overt act of escalation. I don’t think these raids are good policy, but I won’t pretend that it’s happening in isolation. What they are doing, in large part, seems to be legal. Dressing detention up as kidnapping isn’t treating the issue in good faith.
wtf are you talking about? they've shot us citizens, they continually beat an kidnap us citizens for no reason. care to explain any of the actions in this blog post? are you aware of the attack they carried out on an apartment building where they took everyone, mostly US citizens into custody in the middle of the night? kidnapping is the best way to describe it. it's 100% accurate. there's no way to distinguish these terrorists as they drive unmarked cars and refuse to identify themselves. anyone could dress up like them and kidnap people.
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#346This is really sad to read! Can folks who live in Chicago confirm/deny/comment on the extent to which this article gets it right? (I have no reason to believe that it's an exaggeration, but I sincerely hope that it is.)
Have you been ignoring the reports? This is a small slice of the carnage the government has unleashed. They've detained at least 170 US citizens so far for hours or days, shot numerous US citizens, killed US citizens, killed tens of people in detention, the detention center conditions are torture so people intentionally self deport, the people who are deported disappear, are never heard from again ...............
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#347I lived in Chicago before this and experienced shootings in my neighborhood every month and carjackings and drug addicts just roaming the streets and wigging out. It makes no sense that habitual criminals are protected and not deported by the local government. I think if the local government worked with ICE to deport criminals, this probably wouldn’t be happening the way that it was. I think the City of Chicago is to…
> It’s sad that this has become a political discussion instead of an effort to fix all the horrible problems in the city. Every American citizen deserves due process and a fair punishment. This is outlined in the constitution and its amendments, and is not up for negotiation. If you live in the US and don't believe in these values, I don't see how any other citizen of the US could people like you as anything other th…
> Every American citizen deserves due process
Every human being, but yes.
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#348The best solution I can think of is for Illinois or any other place where ICE terrorists are deployed, should mobilize the National Guard to protect the people. They've done the opposite having the cops beat and arrest US citizens demanding justice.
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#349Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The US is currently attacking foreign citizens outside the United States without due process. This is how Osama Bin Laden justified 9/11. To be clear, virtually all of those being deported do not have a legal right to reside in the United States. The number who are deported erroneously measures in the tens, not the hundreds, but even if it were in the tens of thousands, that would not morally justify the extrajudic…
You assumed for some reason I was talking about deporting people and not attacking people in boats with hellfire missiles. "Remotely comparable" or not, I was discussing the disconnect between legal and moral.
> You assumed for some reason I was talking about deporting people and not attacking people in boats with hellfire missiles.
No, I understood you clearly as you said “outside the United States.” My point was that American military adventurism still wouldn’t justify terrorism. I then went on to describe how the majority of deportees have plainly violated the law, and that even if some proportion of deportees had their rights violated during the deportation process, it would not justify the extrajudicial killing of law enforcement officers.
> I was discussing the disconnect between legal and moral.
What the great grandparent comment was advocating for is battering and / or murdering law enforcement officials on the basis that he doesn’t think foreign nationals should be bound by American immigration law.
Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago
#350This shit is so fucked up. And at a certain level I’m disappointed that we are still trying to fix it peaceably when every day of delay, there is irreparable harm to physical wellness, mental health and rights as citizens or residents. Also science in America is fucked for the next decade.
Next generation. You saw that Harvard cut grad admissions by 75% - even in STEM