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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#201

Post by csa »

forinti wrote: post #155

Are there any laws that protect labour in the US? Will they get their salaries and some extra compensation for the tardiness?

> Are there any laws… in the US?

Laws are irrelevant if they are not enforced. Laws are being very slowly or very selectively enforced these days, while some of the powers that be are flagrantly breaking laws.

> Will they get their salaries and some extra compensation for the tardiness?

Theoretically, yes. Just regular pay plus OT that they are owed. No bonus or extra compensation.

Also, most of these folks can fairly easily get low interest loans from banks or credit cards that will be due when they get back pay.

Part of this story is not being told, but I’m not sure what part.

Were these folks who were about to retire anyway?

Were these folks who plan on getting hired back when the government reopens?

I’m not sure, but I don’t think the complete story is being told here (not necessarily with malice or intent).

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#202

Post by thrance »

mrtksn wrote: post #169
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

Two weeks ago, the German state funded publisher Deutsche Welle published a video making a case about the possibility of Donald Trump actually being a Russian asset: https://youtu.be/JmEtx-EmYtc I would be speechless if a conspiracy theory comes true, and the American state is actually captured by the Russians. Don’t get me wrong. I don’t wish it, but as a fan of the series The Americans, it will be epic..

Nah, he's swung back and forth on Ukraine at least 4 times now. Russia certainly did help Trump get the White House, what with the propaganda and all, as they correctly foresaw how terrible he would be for the American Empire. But he does not receive his orders from Putin, that's ridiculous. He's just cruel and stupid.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#203

Post by thrance »

Marshferm wrote: post #172
paulryanrogers wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The process of repealing a president (impeachment) is a political process. Republicans could do it at any moment, so every day they don't is an endorsement of what the president has done, continues to do, and even what he threatens to do.

Repealing a dictator is extralegal. This country is founded on the principle of being able to spot the pretexts (tariffs, terror-driven deportation, selective refugee status of whites fleeing black majorities, dissolving of social nets, rampant corruption) to monarchy-authoritarian leadership. It will happen all over again here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_I... We're all migrants here,…

The current DNC is waaay too weak and uninterested in pushing back against Trump for this to realistically happen. They are complete enablers of this slow fascist takeover. Your only hope now is for the democrats to experience a "tea party" of their own, and have actual leftists take the reins before 2028. Seems highly unlikely now.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#204

Post by morkalork »

idle_zealot wrote: post #147
wredcoll wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is, uh, not usually how these things work out, historically speaking. A desperate country with an extremely strong military is not a great situation for anyone .

The hope is presumably that the water boils fast enough to prompt electoral action before this regime eliminates voting rights and inevitably embroils itself in war to distract from its failings at home.

I suppose we'll find out in the next 361 days?

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#205

Post by ethbr1 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #182
Waterluvian wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the reasoning and I think it’s colourable. But I can’t help but be irritated having grown up hearing nothing but “Liberty or death” rhetoric of American identity, only to find it was all a pathetic cosplay.

[flagged]

When I was younger, I would have agreed with you.

With a measure of time, a counterpoint -- patriotism is that essential glue which holds together a pluralistic, multi ethnic, multi religious, multi cultural society.

Can it be corrupted and do excesses poison? Absolutely.

But can such a society survive without it? I say no: there's too much tendency for groups to fragment and revert to an us-vs-them, uncompromising mentality.

That said, my American patriotism is of the 'disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it' variety. Which is a different flavor than the en vogue militaristic machismo bullying.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#206

Post by thrance »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #116
pkulak wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t they illegally take funds from the CIA to pay the military and ICE? It seems to me like this is ideal for them. They break the law to pay for the stuff they want, let everything else rot. Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me.

> Why the Democrats have allowed this is beyond me. Republicans control all three branches of government. What can Democrats do except filibuster and budgetary maneuvers like they're already doing? Democrats already tried (briefly) going along with the inhumane BBB and Republicans kept cutting and disregarding the law anyway.

Democrats should be counter-messaging every hours of every day, on all media, to create actual dissent within the electorate. They're acting like they can't do anything but watch idly. It's insane that with all that happened, Trump still sits at ~40% popularity. Americans won't realize how shitty the situation is until you tell them, and make sure to blame Trump and the GOP every step of the process.

Insurance premiums on the rise? Thank Trump for that. No planes for Thanksgiving? Blame Vance. Etc.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#207

Post by tbrownaw »

mikeocool wrote: post #160
ibejoeb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is true that democrats are not in the majority. However, it is factually true that 7 more democrats must vote for S.3019 (for a total of 60 votes) for the government to re-open. Ref: https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/119-2025/s609

Yes, that’s the nature of how the Senate has worked at least the last 50 years. If you want a bill to pass, you need to propose one that’s going to get 60 votes. And it’s up the majority party to propose that bill, since the majority leader by and large controls what bills make it to the floor. Bringing a budget bill that doesn’t have 60 votes and then refusing to negotiate isn’t members of the minority party failing…

IOW the minority party has a moral right to get their way on any issue they can prevent defectors about. And the majority party doesn't.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#208

Post by ethbr1 »

estearum wrote: post #39
inglor_cz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be a somewhat inefficient system. There is no absolute need to consider aviation fees to be taxes and collect them through a federal agency. Individual airports should be capable of financing their local ATC as they see fit, be it their own airport fees or, IDK, a surcharge on hamburgers sold in the local McD or a gift from a wealthy sponsor; and they should only have a duty to maintain certain technica…

Are you certain maintaining those technical standards would be much more efficient than the current system?

Considering the FAA has been fucking around for decades attempting to recapitalize and modernize the ATC network -- yes.

See: https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-25-108162

And I do not use "fucking around" lightly. The FAA's repeatedly delayed and ineffective upgrade effort makes even the original healthcare.gov look like the Apollo program.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#210

Post by RickJWagner »

thrance wrote: post #200
RickJWagner wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both parties are to blame. About a decade ago, Tea Party Republicans were in the minority, they refused to approve the budget as the Democrats are doing now. At that time, Democrats accused the Republicans of ‘holding the government hostage’. Now the roles are exactly reversed. It’s games as usual.

Democrats refuse to vote the budget because the GOP removed almost all healthcare funding from it and won't compromise on that. If this budget passes as is, millions will die of preventable diseases. How is it on democrats?

Isn’t it true that the healthcare part only involves credits that were supposed to be temporary during COVID?

Also, isn’t it true that the expiring credits are for people who earn more money than ACA allowed? ( In other words, the poor still get assistance.)

Please provide receipts if there are other aspects to be considered.

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