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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

thedailybeast.com

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#141

Post by AnimalMuppet »

arzig wrote: post #75
lesuorac wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So you’re saying the solution since Republicans control congress they should do away with the filibuster, pass a check funding bill and then continue governing under bare majorities with no filibuster? I don’t particularly like that outcome and I think the public understands that democrats have at least some leverage or they wouldn’t be acting in this way.

The way this normally works is, when the House has passed something and the Senate won't, it goes to a reconciliation committee (with members from both houses), and they bring a compromise bill back, and both houses vote on it.

OK, the House passed something. The Senate has made it very clear that they won't pass it. Well, who's preventing the next step from happening? Speaker Johnson, that's who.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#142

Post by rainsford »

slashdev wrote: post #18
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Why do you blame Trump for the shutdown? Isn't it caused by Congress basically failing to agree on a funding continuation? (I think it's been ages since they could actually go further and agree on a budget). Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. You can say he refuses to compromise, but clearly so does the other side, hence the impasse.

> Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations.

They're not really, especially at this scale. Since they became a thing when Carter was President, Biden and George W. Bush had 0. Reagan had 3, but only for 6 days total and George H. W. Bush had 1 for 3 days. Clinton had 2 for 28 days total and Obama had 1 for 16 days total.

Clinton and Obama's records are a bit more significant, but Trump so far across his 2 terms, 1 of which is less than a year in, has had 3 shutdowns for 77 total days so far. Or to put it another way, out of the 130 days of shutdown that have even happened since they became a thing 45 years ago, ~60% of them have happened in the 5 years Trump has been president. If you do the math, that's roughly 10x worse government uptime. Notably, those are also the only shutdowns that have happened with one party controlling the Presidency, the House, and the Senate.

I'm still not saying this is definitively the Trump administration's fault, but any way you look at it that is not a great record.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#143

Post by mgh95 »

actionfromafar wrote: post #137
mgh95 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You think there will be midterms?

Yes. People love to hyperbolize "this is the last election ever", "this is the most important election ever", "no matter what we need to win this time or the world will end".

People doom too hard.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#144

Post by jcranmer »

koolba wrote: post #54
actionfromafar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s MAGA for you.

[flagged]

The Republicans set the agenda and the rules in both the House and the Senate. They knew, before the shutdown started, that the bills they crafted would have to get 60 votes in the Senate to be enacted. And they also knew, before it started, what would need to be in the bills for them to get to 60 votes.

And yet they chose to pass a bill which would fail to get 60 votes. And when that vote failed to get 60 votes, they chose not to enter into any discussions to alter the bill to get it to win more votes, but rather to try to pass the same bill again and again to get 60 votes. Indeed, some have even called for passing a larger bill that includes Democrats' aims and simply ignoring the enacted law, for adherence to the rule of the law is already absent in this administration.

To blame this situation on the party with the least power at the moment is pure lunacy.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#145

Post by Tiktaalik »

krisoft wrote: post #112
tayo42 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be better to have this job be driven by profit? It's a service provided to the public. Seems like a natural fit for being run by government. The only thing is this funding situation for this government is dumb. Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about it.

> It's a service provided to the public. Seems like a natural fit for being run by government. I don't understand this part of your reasoning. It sounds like you are saying it is a service provided to the public therefore it is a natural fit for being run by the government. Do I understand your reasoning right? Because if so: A lot of services are provided to the public. For example baking bread. Should every baker b…

The difference here is that everyone needs air traffic control and there's zero choices so a market structure doesn't make sense.

With bread, maybe I only like certain types of bread. Maybe I don't want bread. It makes sense for there to be a market with diverse offerings. If bread inputs get expensive maybe everyone pivots to eating potatoes.

In contrast if you want to fly out of a major city there's one major airport, and you need air traffic control. It's a uniform service that is required. The same sort of market structure is not really viable.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#147

Post by idle_zealot »

wredcoll wrote: post #87
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen…

This is, uh, not usually how these things work out, historically speaking. A desperate country with an extremely strong military is not a great situation for anyone .

The hope is presumably that the water boils fast enough to prompt electoral action before this regime eliminates voting rights and inevitably embroils itself in war to distract from its failings at home.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#149

Post by geon »

brokencode wrote: post #135
crikeykangaroo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. It's a good thing we're in a multipolar world now. The US (and its vassal states) have ruled terribly and the world suffered much over it. Sadly, there is still a lot of propaganda that needs to go away. A great world leader would spread genuine peace. Not corrupt other countries, start wars and shed blood. The USA has failed to even keep its own citizens safe and secure. All I worry about is that…

The US hasn't been perfect, but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly. Because who has ever ruled it better? We helped Europe and Asia rebuild after WWII instead of conquering them. To the extent that our previous enemies in Germany and Japan now have some of the strongest economies in the world. There have certainly been wars, often with dubious justification or horrific results, but good luck finding an…

> but you can hardly say we've ruled the world terribly.

"Terribly" is definitely a fair assessment.

> who has ever ruled it better?

Blatant whataboutism.

> instead of conquering them

"I protected them in so many ways, cared for them as if they were my own children. But to this day, is there a single statue of me on Bajor?"

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#150

Post by toomuchtodo »

sebastiennight wrote: post #80
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen…

A major part of the plot of The Every[0] is one protagonist's belief, akin to yours, that precipitating things to their worst outcome could be the fastest way to snap public opinion back to sanity. I don't want to spoil the suspense, but I'll say that I do see the logic in hoping that a quick fire would call everyone's attention to the fire hazard. What you're failing to ask here is "What could possibly go wrong with…

The house is already on fire. The choices are to allow it to burn down and rebuild, taking the arsonists with it, or attempting to slow them down while the fire continues to burn and their supporters cheer them on.

American Democracy appears to be the same as second generation wealth: unappreciated until gone. Make Functional Governance Great Again. I wish it were not so.

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