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I Want You to Understand Chicago

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Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#231

Post by lurk2 »

tedivm wrote: post #39
pizlonator wrote: post #17

This is really sad to read! Can folks who live in Chicago confirm/deny/comment on the extent to which this article gets it right? (I have no reason to believe that it's an exaggeration, but I sincerely hope that it is.)

I live in Chicago, and this article doesn't even scratch the surface of how bad it is. My wife went to the beach yesterday for 10 minutes to try and rest from the chaos and a fucking black hawk helicopter buzzed by her. They literally fly over my house daily. People, US citizens included, are literally being abducted. People have been shot and killed by masked agents. People have had their children abandoned on the s…

[flagged]

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#232

Post by lurk2 »

testing22321 wrote: post #228
tedivm wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Chicago, and this article doesn't even scratch the surface of how bad it is. My wife went to the beach yesterday for 10 minutes to try and rest from the chaos and a fucking black hawk helicopter buzzed by her. They literally fly over my house daily. People, US citizens included, are literally being abducted. People have been shot and killed by masked agents. People have had their children abandoned on the s…

> This post has been flagged and hidden, just demonstrating how much this country wants to pretend this isn't happening It’s so sad to see HN taking the side of violence and oppression with their “head in the sand” approach. I wonder how different the HN overlords would feel if their own families were being torn apart. This is Disgraceful and inexcusable. The shame. The only reason this is not currently flagged to ob…

[flagged]

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#233

Post by speff »

fujigawa wrote: post #213
tptacek wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this has anything whatsoever to do with whether "Pedro" will be there to shovel their driveway. Nobody cares about that. We all live with 100% certainty that somebody will exchange dollars for snow shoveling. The reason you hear about landscapers right now is that ICE is directly targeting them. If you're ICE, looking to meet a detention quota from whatever quadrant Oak Park is in, the easiest way to do that…

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Are you claiming that the detainees - assumedly primarily illegal immigrants - are taking part in the voting process and that's why the governor is "grandstanding"?

That's the story I hear from certain folks and as far as I can tell, it has no merit. I'd be interested in any actual stats here.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#234

Post by toomuchtodo »

strken wrote: post #152
ryandrake wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that we are not talking about protecting the public from a few mentally ill public officials. These officials didn't just appear out of the ether, they were voted for by tens of millions of voters who want this. Even if the officials go away, those voters are not.

I'm not sure this is the correct perspective on voting. Voters are often passionate about one or two key issues - crime, Israel v Palestine, cost of living, immigration policy, coal towns, Ukraine, military spending, or whatever is most important to them. If they voted for Trump it doesn't mean they agree with him on immigration and crime. They just have to think it's less important than the positions they do agree w…

You’re expecting rationality where it will not be found. The do not care about effective arguments, they are vibes and emotion driven.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#235

Post by nemo44x »

ryandrake wrote: post #224
nemo44x wrote: post #184

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You can argue for or against mass-deportation as a policy. Fine. But the tactics are a choice, and at every turn, the current administration is deliberately choosing cruelty, fear, intimidation, violence, opaqueness, and grief. In an alternate world, they could have still chosen to do mass-deportation, but also: 1. sent uniformed officers with arrest warrants, 2. who identify themselves clearly as officers, 3. who sh…

So the aesthetics are bad. The execution is sloppy and it’s likely the people tasked with it are under trained and under supervised. But the outcome is the same otherwise.

I don’t know if they’re trying to be mean or if they’re just trying to effectively hit their goals. It’s ruthless execution but that’s what’s taught in business school today.

The citizens that are being wrongly violated will have their day and be compensated.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#236

Post by ssl-3 »

gishh wrote: post #225
throwaway173738 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the people who suggest voting doesn’t matter are either suffering from some nihilistic delusion or they’re spreading a self-serving lie.

Hmm. Possibly. I predict that California will “go blue” in the presidential elections for at least the rest of my lifetime. Someone who “votes red” in California can say that their vote doesn’t matter, and a reasonable person would understand why they feel that way. You don’t seem like a reasonable person, or you’re also suffering from some nihilistic delusion, possibly.

The most sure method any of us can individually enact to help to ensure that our favored candidate is not elected is to declare that it doesn't matter, and then just give up and not vote.

This method is literally an example of nihilism.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#237

Post by jonway »

tptacek wrote: post #216
ryandrake wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is how many people enthusiastically voted for this madness, lawlessness and cruelty, and are still cheering it on. You can say "vote, vote, vote," and maybe it will work in 2026 or 2028, or 2030 or whenever, but the root problem is not going away: you are still surrounded by people all over the country who want this.

I don't think this framing is very helpful. Whatever you believe about the people who pulled the lever for Trump, which included an unprecedented number of Latino and Black voters, they exist, and they're not persuaded by your disapproval. I think a really big problem we have on my side of the aisle is the belief that there's a celestial referee who will call offsides on the Republicans if we can just find the right…

Could you please qualify both: the several years of chaotic annd uncontrolled immigration as well as Biden betting on employment vs inflation with the policies that you are referencing?

For example, while I’m aware that the Biden admin ended title 42, it had only been policy for a few years, ending this policy simply removes us to the Obama era. Although I certainly don’t intend to strawman what you are saying, Obama immigration certainly wasn’t chaotic and uncontrolled. These statements don’t comport with my reading of the facts, as well as inflation, since I understand this to be a global phenomenon. I am genuinely interested

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#238

Post by thelastgallon »

fujigawa wrote: post #213
tptacek wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this has anything whatsoever to do with whether "Pedro" will be there to shovel their driveway. Nobody cares about that. We all live with 100% certainty that somebody will exchange dollars for snow shoveling. The reason you hear about landscapers right now is that ICE is directly targeting them. If you're ICE, looking to meet a detention quota from whatever quadrant Oak Park is in, the easiest way to do that…

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> Something like > 30% of ICE agents and > 50% of CBP officers are Latino themselves. It's incongruent with the narrative being presented.

Nearly 100% of the people enslaving India were Indians, employed by British Easy India Company. Its just 3,000 british people from Great Britian with bad teeth that enslaved an entire country for ~200 years. People will do ANYTHING for a paycheck. The ethnicity of those employed means jackshit.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#239

Post by xboxnolifes »

krior wrote: post #162
g-b-r wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, violent reactions is what Trump would love, because it would allow a much bigger, probably definitive, escalation I think Americans should first do everything possible to bring to sanity the supporters of Trump

> I think Americans should first do everything possible to bring to sanity the supporters of Trump It seems that ship left the port last november. There is barely any noticable resistance whatsoever to Trump. All this talk about freedom and when the time comes americans just fold over like lawnchairs.

Polling numbers and recent elections suggest there has been some shift.

Re: I Want You to Understand Chicago

#240

Post by nemo44x »

WillEngler wrote: post #219
nemo44x wrote: post #184

[flagged]

This is a common objection I hear raised, so I think it's good that you raised it here. Respectfully, I think there is a lot of rhetorical slippage in your argument. First, I did not support the very loose amnesty policy, but I also don't support ICE teargassing the grocery store parking lot outside of my old apartment in Logan Square. In any case I don't think one's opinion on the first thing should disqualify them…

What is the precise qualification for which illegal alien is permitted and which one is deported?

Opposition should propose legislation that allows migrant workers to easily obtain visas and return home and come back next year. This is how it was until the 1960s when that system was killed.

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