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Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

theguardian.com

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Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#111

Post by jaredklewis »

tkel wrote: post #69
abe94 wrote: post #36

Maybe the subsidized transit is normal in europe, and universal childcare in some parts of europe (definetly not all of western europe), but this article is stretching when claiming state run grocery stores are normal. Its also conveniently leaving out the policy ideas on reducing policing, and introducing mental health crisis workers which have been tried in the US (SF) and worked disastrously.

17 states have government owned stores, it's common across the US. They sell liquor and in some states they also sell groceries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_sta... On policing, Urban Alchemy is the company that was contracted in SF. Having worked directly with Urban Alchemy for years in LA, their staff are severly underqualified and 95% of the time will do nothing once arriving on site. T…

I’m continually frustrated by the amount of press the grocery store thing gets. I’m probably against it, though it’s hard to know because there are not clearly outlined policy goals for what the grocery stores would try to accomplish and how. But that’s beside the point. My issue is that a government run grocery stores are one the least remarkable points of Mamdani’s platform. NYC already has a budget shortfall of ~$5bn and he wants to spend billions on free buses, tens of billions on child care, and (IIRC) borrow another $70 billion for housing development.

NYC tax revenues are not growing and even optimistic estimates of the proposed tax increases (which the mayor doesn’t have the power to impose anyway) top out at $8 billion.

This is the epitome of magical thinking. Even with the most optimistic estimates of revenue increases and conservative estimates for the proposed spending, the numbers are miles away from adding up. And we’re talking about some municipal grocery stores? Like even if he really screws it up, the cost is probably only in the hundreds of millions.

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#112

Post by breakpointalpha »

jaredklewis wrote: post #111
tkel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

17 states have government owned stores, it's common across the US. They sell liquor and in some states they also sell groceries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_sta... On policing, Urban Alchemy is the company that was contracted in SF. Having worked directly with Urban Alchemy for years in LA, their staff are severly underqualified and 95% of the time will do nothing once arriving on site. T…

I’m continually frustrated by the amount of press the grocery store thing gets. I’m probably against it, though it’s hard to know because there are not clearly outlined policy goals for what the grocery stores would try to accomplish and how. But that’s beside the point. My issue is that a government run grocery stores are one the least remarkable points of Mamdani’s platform. NYC already has a budget shortfall of ~$…

He's been very clear that he intends on raising taxes to cover the budget shortfall and additional services.

"Zohran’s revenue plan will raise the corporate tax rate to match New Jersey’s 11.5%, bringing in $5 billion. And he will tax the wealthiest 1% of New Yorkers—those earning above $1 million annually—a flat 2% tax (right now city income tax rates are essentially the same whether you make $50,000 or $50 million). Zohran will also implement common-sense procurement reform, end senseless no-bid contracts, hire more tax auditors, and crack down on fine collection from corrupt landlords to raise an additional $1 billion."

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14-aM9DKG337SDMilmfQtLRR-pDw...

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#113

Post by Izkata »

wutbrodo wrote: post #98
tkel wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

17 states have government owned stores, it's common across the US. They sell liquor and in some states they also sell groceries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_sta... On policing, Urban Alchemy is the company that was contracted in SF. Having worked directly with Urban Alchemy for years in LA, their staff are severly underqualified and 95% of the time will do nothing once arriving on site. T…

> No first responder can prevent a crime from happening, all responders arrive after crime has occurred I've never understood this claim. Are you unaware of the concept of deterrence, or do you reject that it exists?

"Beat cops" barely seem to be a thing anymore, so I'd guess anyone under 30 might think it's only in movies and TV, if even that.

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#114

Post by Izkata »

rsynnott wrote: post #96
rsynnott wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the article, they exist elsewhere, including elsewhere in the US. Most European cities don't typically really suffer from the problem that New York apparently has (where groceries in New York are apparently significantly more expensive than outside, and significant areas don't have proper supermarkets at all). If they did, in many countries there would absolutely be some sort of intervention.

Sidenote: Has there been serious research into _why_ these 'food deserts' happen (or at least their urban form; the rural version seems more explicable), and/or why they seem to happen in the US more than in other developed countries, does anyone know? On the face of it, even as a fairly market-sceptical person, this is one that I would kind of expect the invisible hand to deal with.

> On the face of it, even as a fairly market-sceptical person, this is one that I would kind of expect the invisible hand to deal with.

This is more one of the causes: Too much theft so they cut their losses.

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#115

Post by margalabargala »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #84
margalabargala wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's OK! There are a lot of things you don't know. What's important is that you're learning. Consider that your assumption that Norway is not socialist is incorrect. Just because Norway may not meet whatever definition the Heritage Foundation is telling you when you look it up, doesn't mean that Norway does not nevertheless use the word "Socialist" to describe their own government.

Hilarious comment. I am hoping it is tongue in cheek. If not, it does highlight something worrying: Too many people either don't understand what "socialism" means or, perhaps even worse, think you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean.

> Too many people either don't understand what "socialism" means or, perhaps even worse, think you can make it mean whatever you want it to mean.

Gosh, you should tell the Norwegians! I'm sure they will want to know that their government doesn't meet your preferred objectively-universally-correct definition of "socialist" and so they should stop calling themselves that.

Personally I have no issue with it in the same way I have no problem with Americans calling their government a "democracy".

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#116

Post by mmooss »

abe94 wrote: post #101
mmooss wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> introducing mental health crisis workers which have been tried in the US (SF) and worked disastrously. I've read it has worked very well, though not necessarily in SF in particular. Do you happen to remember where you read that? It's hard to imagine why having mental health professionals address mental health problems would be a bad idea.

Here's an account from the NYC government itself on how it hasn't worked well - https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/audit-of-the-behavioral-...

That document doesn't support your claim at all, that I see; it talks about limited deployment and management analytics.

Could you point out if I'm missing something?

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#117

Post by jaredklewis »

breakpointalpha wrote: post #112
jaredklewis wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m continually frustrated by the amount of press the grocery store thing gets. I’m probably against it, though it’s hard to know because there are not clearly outlined policy goals for what the grocery stores would try to accomplish and how. But that’s beside the point. My issue is that a government run grocery stores are one the least remarkable points of Mamdani’s platform. NYC already has a budget shortfall of ~$…

He's been very clear that he intends on raising taxes to cover the budget shortfall and additional services. "Zohran’s revenue plan will raise the corporate tax rate to match New Jersey’s 11.5%, bringing in $5 billion. And he will tax the wealthiest 1% of New Yorkers—those earning above $1 million annually—a flat 2% tax (right now city income tax rates are essentially the same whether you make $50,000 or $50 million)…

Yea, I’m aware of that. Problem is that it is innumerate. Raising $6 to $8 billion in revenue is not enough to cover a $5 billion deficit and something like $50 billion in additional services and housing development.

Would be great if Democrats can stay the party of serious governance and not style drift to the post-truth style embraced by modern Republicans. I’m glad we’re nominating young, charismatic candidates, but we need to stay in reality.

For a more sober look at the proposals (you sent a link to campaign material) see https://www.cato.org/blog/mamdanis-wishful-thinking-tax-reve...

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#118

Post by abe94 »

Izkata wrote: post #113
wutbrodo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No first responder can prevent a crime from happening, all responders arrive after crime has occurred I've never understood this claim. Are you unaware of the concept of deterrence, or do you reject that it exists?

"Beat cops" barely seem to be a thing anymore, so I'd guess anyone under 30 might think it's only in movies and TV, if even that.

Which is an issue.

Mamdani and politicians with similar 'progressive' positions are those advocating for reducing them (either through budget cuts, or moving resources to worse initiatives), while the most robust studies on crime have shown beat cops to be pretty effective for reducing crime (see the Philadelphia Foot Patrol Experiment, and other meta analyses)

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#119

Post by abe94 »

mmooss wrote: post #116
abe94 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an account from the NYC government itself on how it hasn't worked well - https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/audit-of-the-behavioral-...

That document doesn't support your claim at all, that I see; it talks about limited deployment and management analytics. Could you point out if I'm missing something?

You can pick and choose what you see from the audit (though in no circumstances is it an astounding success).

The general points i'm trying to get across is

- Responder safety/back-up needs mean you can’t fully “swap out” police. This program still needed to bring in police most of the time. - Coverage and scale are hard in an actually big city, like NYC. (also why denver's success in a tiny city is sort of a useless comparison)

So why not just equip police to better handle mental health cases instead of creating a different task force which doesn't have any of structure the police already has? This isn't rhetorical - the reason is idealogical stubbornness, there are better solutions for achieving mamadanis goals.

Re: Europeans recognize Zohran Mamdani's policies as 'normal'

#120

Post by duxup »

newyankee wrote: post #4

Have most Western countries mostly given up on supply side policies for housing price stablisation as an option ? Odd given how much construction tech has improved.

If you mean building more housing in order to lower prices, it has worked in Minneapolis:

https://www.nbcnews.com/business/real-estate/high-housing-co...

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