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Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

moonshotai.github.io

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Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#81

Post by nylonstrung »

lvl155 wrote: post #68
pu_pe wrote: post #42

Four independent Chinese companies released extremely good open source models in the past few months (DeepSeek, Qwen/Alibaba, Kimi/Moonshot, GLM/Z.ai). No American or European companies are doing that, including titans like Meta. What gives?

The answer is simply that no one would pay to use them for a number of reasons including privacy. They have to give them away and put up some semblance of openness. No option really.

There are plenty of people paying, the price/performance is vastly better than the Western models

Deepseek 3.2 is 1% the cost of Claude and 90% of the quality

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#82

Post by nylonstrung »

sheepscreek wrote: post #11

I am sure they cherry-picked the examples but still, wow. Having spent a considerable amount of time trying to introduce OSS models in my workflows I am fully aware of their short comings. Even frontier models would struggle with such outputs (unless you lead the way, help break down things and maybe even use sub-agents). Very impressed with the progress. Keeps me excited about what’s to come next!

Subjectively I find Kimi is far "smarter" than the benchmarks imply, maybe because they game then less than US labs

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#85

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

Uehreka wrote: post #72
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but that's the point ... today's locally runnable models are a long way behind SOTA capability, so it'd be nice to see more research and experimentation in that direction. Maybe a zoo of highly specialized small models + agents for S/W development - one for planning, one for coding, etc?

If I understand transformers properly, this is unlikely to work. The whole point of “Large” Language Models is that you primarily make them better by making them larger, and when you do so, they get better at both general and specific tasks (so there isn’t a way to sacrifice generality but keep specific skills when training a small models). I know a lot of people want this (Apple really really wants this and is pouri…

Yeah - the whole business model of companies like OpenAI and Anthropic, at least at the moment, seems to be that the models are so big that you need to run them in the cloud with metered access. Maybe that could change in the future to sale or annual licence business model if running locally became possible.

I think scale helps for general tasks where the breadth of capability may be needed, but it's not so clear that this needed for narrow verticals, especially something like coding (knowing how to fix car engines, or distinguish 100 breeds of dog is not of much use!).

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#86

Post by unleaded »

Gracana wrote: post #74
am17an wrote: post #16

The non-thinking version is the best writer by far. Excited for this one! They really cooked some different from other frontier labs.

Interesting, I have the opposite impression. I want to like it because it's the biggest model I can run at home, but its punchy style and insistence on heavily structured output scream "tryhard AI." I was really hoping that this model would deviate from what I was seeing in their previous release.

what do you mean by "heavily structured output"? i find it generates the most natural-sounding output of any of the LLMs—cuts straight to the answer with natural sounding prose (except when sometimes it decides to use chat-gpt style output with its emoji headings for no reason). I've only used it on kimi.com though, wondering what you're seeing.

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#87

Post by thedudeabides5 »

nylonstrung wrote: post #83
thedudeabides5 wrote: post #77

great, where does it think taiwan is part of...

I asked it that now and it gave an answer identical to English language Wikipedia When can we stop with these idiotic kneejerk reactions

just checked, I wouldn't say it's identical but yes looks way more balanced.

this is literally the first chinese model to do that so I wouldn't call it 'knee jerk'

Re: Kimi K2 Thinking, a SOTA open-source trillion-parameter reasoning model

#89

Post by nylonstrung »

jmdeon wrote: post #34
GordonS wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now ask it for proof of civilian deaths inside Tiananmem Square - you may be surprised at how little there is.

I don't think this is the argument you want it to be, unless you're acknowledging the power of the Chinese government and their ability to suppress and destroy evidence. Even so there is photo evidence of dead civilians in the square. The best estimates we have are 200-10,000 deaths, using data from Beijing hospitals that survived. AskHistorians is legitimately a great resource, with sources provided and very strict…

The 10,000 number seems baseless

The source for that is a diplomatic cable from the British ambassador within 48 hours of the massacre saying he heard it secondhand

It would have been too soon for any accurate data which explains why it's so high compared to other estimates

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