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IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#111

Post by 05 »

vollbrecht wrote: post #59
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come) In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hi…

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

Unless you're running Home Assistant and open source nodes. You can build a Matter+Thread node that works on a nrf52840 MCU, there are examples in the Nordic SDK. But then, why would you bother with Matter which is so bloated it doesn't even fit in flash properly? The only example that works on 52840 requires external flash to hold the B partition for OTA updates :)

So I'm using ESPHome for everything that could be wall powered and BTHome (with those same nrf52840 chips, you can buy boards for like $2 on Aliexpress) for everything that needs to run on battery.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#112

Post by jjkaczor »

Still looking for a good "smart stove" for the mother-in-law who is showing early stages of Alzheimer's/dementia, but in complete denial and will not seek medical advice. So, I need something to be able to monitor it, turn it off, etc. LG or Samsung seem to be the only games in-town - I have also looked at a smart-plug capable of 220v, but - that "all-or-nothing" may be overkill.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#113

Post by comfydragon »

pta2002 wrote: post #36
darkwater wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never needed a bucket of hubs with things like zigbee2mqtt or the Zigbee implementation in Home Assistant. That's enough a proof that the issue was not in the protocol. Actualyl you can also pair between them different vendors products (i.e. Ikea remote with Philips bulbs)

While you could do that, the hub needed to implement the logic to actually convert the different "APIs" that the products spoke. E.g. imagine an IKEA remote sends "button_on" to turn on the light, but the Philips remotes send "light_on" or something. Philips lights will work with their remotes but not with IKEA remotes, since they wouldn't know what to do with "button_on". Zigbee2mqtt and ZHA are great projects that…

> Matter simplifies this. It defines the API layer.

Technically Zigbee _also_ defines an API layer -- the Zigbee Cluster Library, or ZCL -- but that's more like an opt-in standard you _could_ implement, rather than any hard requirement. And no surprise, the Matter Cluster Library Specification, being authored by the same CSA that made ZCL, is eerily similar to ZCL...

But as I understand it, you're right that Matter is essentially "hey everyone, let's _actually_ standardize around a common application layer". It isn't technologically revolutionary (the building blocks have been around for more than a decade), but it's a better packaging of it all.

Source: My employer has been involved with Zigbee and other low-power network technologies for a long time.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#114

Post by 05 »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #71
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come) In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hi…

Definitely will not be buying Matter stuff. Way too complicated, doesn't address the real problems in smarthome technology. I usually take my smart devices with me when I move. It's a pretty expensive thing to leave behind for a new owner that probably won't use it anyways. If someone offered me extra to leave them I might and then I'd also leave a manual.

> I usually take my smart devices with me when I move.

Considering you can't even set up Matter devices if you lost the enrollment QR code (and the manual enrollment code is printed on the back of those ceiling downlights), it's a very good idea to take them with you and avoid frustrating the future occupants :)

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#115

Post by rkomorn »

jjkaczor wrote: post #112

Still looking for a good "smart stove" for the mother-in-law who is showing early stages of Alzheimer's/dementia, but in complete denial and will not seek medical advice. So, I need something to be able to monitor it, turn it off, etc. LG or Samsung seem to be the only games in-town - I have also looked at a smart-plug capable of 220v, but - that "all-or-nothing" may be overkill.

An induction stove doesn't answer your monitoring needs, but it's probably the safest thing to cook with. Only heats up when there's a pan, not prone to fires, ours even complains loudly if something unexpected is happening (eg lots of spilled liquid).

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#116

Post by magixx »

seanalltogether wrote: post #51
ifh-hn wrote: post #31

I've never really got the smart home thing, and the shit being pulled with the likes of "smart" TVs and cars has really put me off any sort of network connected device I can't control. How would you use this and ensure privacy and security? Without investing time in becoming an amateur network engineer?

As someone who is a bit of a luddite when it comes to smart home features, there are 2 things that really stand out to me that i would like. 1. Open/Close sensors, I would like to put sensors on my shed door and side gates that can tell me if they are open or closed. I will occassionally leave these open, or the kids may leave them open and would prefer they be closed each night. It's impossible for me to tell if the…

Open/Close sensors + lights (and optionally luminance sensor) is what I find to be useful. When I open my home door the light turns on automatically if it's dark enough.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#117

Post by jonplackett »

rkomorn wrote: post #115
jjkaczor wrote: post #112

Still looking for a good "smart stove" for the mother-in-law who is showing early stages of Alzheimer's/dementia, but in complete denial and will not seek medical advice. So, I need something to be able to monitor it, turn it off, etc. LG or Samsung seem to be the only games in-town - I have also looked at a smart-plug capable of 220v, but - that "all-or-nothing" may be overkill.

An induction stove doesn't answer your monitoring needs, but it's probably the safest thing to cook with. Only heats up when there's a pan, not prone to fires, ours even complains loudly if something unexpected is happening (eg lots of spilled liquid).

Every induction stove I’ve ever used though, was designed by someone who either has never heard of human interface design, or has done and entirely hates the concept of it.

Eg, buttons so close to the heating element that they hurt to press

Buttons to turn it off that only work when dry, places near where a spill would go.

Buttons you have to press up to 10 times just to get it to a reasonable heat.

Why does induction also have to equal no buttons, and no dials?

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#118

Post by kristofferR »

jjkaczor wrote: post #112

Still looking for a good "smart stove" for the mother-in-law who is showing early stages of Alzheimer's/dementia, but in complete denial and will not seek medical advice. So, I need something to be able to monitor it, turn it off, etc. LG or Samsung seem to be the only games in-town - I have also looked at a smart-plug capable of 220v, but - that "all-or-nothing" may be overkill.

Isn't a stove/cooker guard actually what you're looking for?

They're legally mandated in Norway, there's already a big section of them, some have Zigbee, like this one:

https://www.firefence.org/ https://www.bekkelund.net/2024/02/19/firefence-komfyrvakt/

I'm sure there are products in other markets too.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#119

Post by charlie-83 »

vollbrecht wrote: post #59
bluGill wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come) In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hi…

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

That's not bad compared to Bluetooth. Also, you will need FCC cert by law and probably some UL certs if you actually want to sell you product anywhere so you are already looking at 10s of thousands even if you choose ZigBee. I would love to live in a world where indie hardware can launch wireless products without huge cert cost but that's not the world we live in.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#120

Post by poisonborz »

For the power user, I don't see much that Matter/Thread offers over Zigbee. The "unified command protocol" is not much of a problem with attentive device selection (and for chinese products there is Tuya) and as for Thread, it's not dramatically better. There were debates around this 4+ years ago, and will be 4+ years from now. The standard is out forever, search any marketplace, you will find that Zigbee/Wifi outnumber Matter devices 10:1.
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