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IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#101

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

I have accumulated so much smart-stuff fatigue, I can't stand anything branded as "smart". This means, as you point out, 1) any outage in the chain between me and the vendor's app shuts everything down for me, 2) stuff behaves inconsistently all the time. (e.g. Bluetooth speakers with a smartphone/tablet player app -- every other time something goes wrong: the app frozen completely because search autocomplete lost pa…

Modern smart switches are pretty small (most of them are designed to fit into wall sockets behind plugs/light switches).

I personally think relays are a much more reliable than solid state switches and are very unlikely to fail in a dangerous way, and fully interupt the circuit, but they do have a 'click' some people dislike, and have a lifetime of 100k-ish switches, so for an application where you keep switching rapidly (e.g. not light switches), this might be a problem.

Ikea used Thread and Zigbee which are not Wifi, they use a mesh network and don't suffer from saturation the way Wifi does, in fact adding more devices tends to make the network more reliable since devices can route around failing or congested nodes.

I've had good experience with them in practice, but do be mindful that they share the 2.4GHz band with Wifi so in an apt building, you might run into radio channel congestion.

Personally I use smart home stuff for controlling heating devices and a few other key items, I don't think it makes sense to make every light switch smart, but technically people have done so and it tends to work all right.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#102
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub. As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security'…

I realize Thread devices need a border router, but once they're connected to that router don't they get an IPv6 address with internet access? Or am I just misunderstanding the protocol?

Not 100% sure about Thread as I'm more used to Zigbee, but afaik the Thread router acts as either a proxy between your regular network and the Thread devices (you can wrap IPv6 packets so they can be exposed over regular ethernet) or the router is the smart hub itself and the nodes are not really accessible from the Wifi network.

How it works in Home Assistant afaik is that the border router is a piece of software running in docker that has access to the radio, and then HA talks to the thread devices via the virtual network interface of Docker.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#103
post #88
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.

I hope they make them quieter this time!

FYI someone made their own firmware which will drive the motor at a slower speed. Significantly reduces the noise.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#104
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A standard where you have to pay to play. Cheapest option is 3000$ per product and 500$ annual.

I wasn't aware of that. One other concern I have with Matter is that, if I understand correctly, Thread+Matter devices get their own IP address with internet access, whereas with Zigbee all of that has to be controlled by the gateway. In theory that's a win for Matter, but I'm a little concerned about the security and enshitification problems that might cause. I kinda like the idea that I can buy a cheap IoT lock off…

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The solution is home assistant [0] it lets you manage and control all kinds of smart devices with a lot of customizable, hackable things. And it runs locally, so if you buy the right types of devices that don’t phone home to the cloud (or you shitcan their internet access) you can fully manage your own system. [0] https://www.home-assistant.io/

Or if you want something more of an appliance, some other Hubs with Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Thread + Matter support are: Homey Pro, Homey Bridge, Aeotec SmartThings Hub, and Hubitat. I only have experience with the first three (besides Home Assistant) and they work very well (though the SmartThings hub is somewhat limited when it comes to device support, graphing, etc.). I should also mention that with Homey Bridge the d…

Imho Home Assistant is the way to go - there's just so much weirdness going on in a regular home you need to accomodate that with any of these 'turnkey' solutions, you'll run into some limitation that you can't get around.

HA is fiddly but with enough effort you can make anything run the way you want to, and the community is pretty active.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#106

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub. As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security'…

> the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub.

For Matter (regardless of network connectivity - WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread) this is part of the certification, the devices must be controllable locally and without internet connectivity at least for basic or core functions.

For Zigbee there's no such thing. Zigbee is the network protocol and the manufacturers usually implemented whatever communication protocol they wanted on top. This is why my Tado thermostats that communicate with the hub over Zigbee aren't compatible with any other hub and need the cloud connectivity even when integrated with HA [0][1].

[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/

[1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#107
post #2

I have never heard of Matter before, but I was super satisfied with Ikea's zigbee products. Does anyone know why they switched?

It's an application layer standard that describes how devices should present themselves and present information and accept control signals in a standard way.

It can run over Wifi or Thread which provides the physical interface and networking support.

In contrast Zigbee defines both the application layer and the networking.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub. As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security'…

> the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub. For Matter (regardless of network connectivity - WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread) this is part of the certification, the devices must be controllable locally and without internet connectivity at least for basic or core functions. For Zigbee there'…

Pretty sure Zigbee also defines a control layers, so there's such a thing as a standard switch or power meter, or thermostat which can be controlled by any generic piece of software.

A lot of devices are not compliant though and either have extra functionality exposed in a nonstandard way, or don't comform to the standard well enough.

So your Zigbee light switch will probably workout any fuss regardless of vendor but more complex devices might not.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#109
post #79

Is anyone aware of or working on an equivalent to zigbee2mqtt but for both Matter-over-WiFi and Matter-over-Thread devices? It’s so darn convenient to have MQTT in the picture for home automation and my #1 challenge in imagining a future world past my 400+ ZigBee devices is what replaces zigbee2mqtt and has a similar “owner experience”.

https://github.com/matter-js/matter.js has a MQTT example for familiarity but the intention is that devices just communicate over UDP
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