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IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

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Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#91

Post by darkwater »

pta2002 wrote: post #36
darkwater wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You never needed a bucket of hubs with things like zigbee2mqtt or the Zigbee implementation in Home Assistant. That's enough a proof that the issue was not in the protocol. Actualyl you can also pair between them different vendors products (i.e. Ikea remote with Philips bulbs)

While you could do that, the hub needed to implement the logic to actually convert the different "APIs" that the products spoke. E.g. imagine an IKEA remote sends "button_on" to turn on the light, but the Philips remotes send "light_on" or something. Philips lights will work with their remotes but not with IKEA remotes, since they wouldn't know what to do with "button_on". Zigbee2mqtt and ZHA are great projects that…

> you can pair different vendor's products to the hub, and the hub can translate between them. But while you can pair an IKEA remote to an IKEA bulb without a hub, you can't really do that between different brands.

Yes you can, I did that with Ikea, Philips and Innr brands. No hub, not even Z2M involved. Yes, as you say they do need to agree on a "protocol" and AFAIK they are all following Philips lead on that, but they can totally work in a P2P fashion without any hub. They negotiate their own key, you just need to pair them with a very close distance (less than 5cm approx).

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#92

Post by deanc »

scosman wrote: post #63
moshib wrote: post #3

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years. I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.

Using the blinds with a second gen hub now for about four years. No problems at all. Dreading the day they fail as they’re non-negotiable during the summer.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#93

Post by bjoli »

moshib wrote: post #3

IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years. I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.

The open/close sensors have been amazing.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#94

Post by torginus »

exabrial wrote: post #72

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub.

As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security's not a concern (that much) since they don't really have internet access.

Some devices were known to have vulnearbilities where the attacker was physically present to get in radio contact with the device, but those are pretty rare and impossible to exploit en masse.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#95

Post by gorbypark »

james-bcn wrote: post #33
embedding-shape wrote: post #4

Does this mean they're abandoning Zigbee compatibility? In my experience, Ikea was making the most reliable Zigbee devices considering the price (as someone who just uses Zigbee and no Ikea hubs, just HA+Zigbee), and would be a shame to lose that, but maybe it's a clear sign I should investigate starting to use Matter more instead?

Isn't Matter derived from Zigbee?

Yes and no. Zigbee is both the transport and the protocol, whereas Matter is a protocol but can run over different transports. Most common in Thread or WiFi, but it could be over ethernet or anything else, really. I would say Matter is not derived from zigbee, but Thread could be considered a derivative.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#96

Post by Ajedi32 »

torginus wrote: post #94
exabrial wrote: post #72

I'm not investing in any smart home products unless: * I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network * I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15 If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.

All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub. As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security'…

I realize Thread devices need a border router, but once they're connected to that router don't they get an IPv6 address with internet access? Or am I just misunderstanding the protocol?

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#97

Post by afavour »

deanc wrote: post #92
scosman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.

Using the blinds with a second gen hub now for about four years. No problems at all. Dreading the day they fail as they’re non-negotiable during the summer.

FWIW I bought some Zigbee blinds from Amazon and they’ve been great. My windows weren’t the right size for the IKEA ones and the sellers on Amazon will custom make them for you to within 1/8 inch or something like that.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#98

Post by greggsy »

ericd wrote: post #88
scosman wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.

I hope they make them quieter this time!

I have non ikea electric blinds. Sure they’re a a little grindy but it’s like 30 seconds two a day.

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#99

Post by kyriakos »

embedding-shape wrote: post #4

Does this mean they're abandoning Zigbee compatibility? In my experience, Ikea was making the most reliable Zigbee devices considering the price (as someone who just uses Zigbee and no Ikea hubs, just HA+Zigbee), and would be a shame to lose that, but maybe it's a clear sign I should investigate starting to use Matter more instead?

you can get a Zigbee / Matter / Thread coordinator and continue using HA as before (google SMLIGHT)

Re: IKEA launches new smart home range with 21 Matter-compatible products

#100

Post by gorbypark »

teamonkey wrote: post #16
pta2002 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a newer standard backed by multiple vendors (importantly, Apple, Google and Amazon, who make the devices that you ultimately want to use to control these things). Zigbee is great for communication instead of WiFi, but it’s just one part of the equation - it says nothing about the specific commands a device will respond to. You couldn’t pair a Philips remote with an IKEA lightbulb. Matter attempts to fix it by ac…

The way I understand it (please correct me) is that: * The old Ikea Zigbee products will remain Zigbee. They will still require a Zigbee coordinator. * The new products will be Matter-over-Thread. They require a Thread coordinator (or whatever the Thread equivalent is called). * The existing Ikea hub has had a firmware upgrade that allows it to be simultaneously a Zigbee and Thread coordinator. * The Ikea hub adds a…

This is correct more or less. The Ikea hub has had the ability to bridge its zigbee devices to Matter for a while now. So in my case, Apple Home has no idea my lights and switches are not Matter, they just show up there even though they are actually zigbee.

Ikea recently did an update to enable the hub to be a Matter controller itself (over thread or Wifi). This means you can add matter devices to the Ikea hub directly and use the Ikea Home Smart app the control them instead of Apple Home or etc. You can add non-Ikea matter devices as well as Ikea matter devices (when they are released).

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