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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#71

Post by Waterluvian »

jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

I’m not sure those who speak like that are equipped to understand how offensive their words and tone can be.

It suggests a decision can be reversed with a quick call, which questions one’s choices or conviction. As if to suggest the choice was made without considerable thought and care. It’s such an unserious tone to a moment that’s very serious to the other.

Re: End of Japanese community

#72

Post by krick »

ekianjo wrote: post #35
adeptima wrote: post #7

10+ years in Japan. The message here is much deeper from my perspective. “Let’s jump on the call” is not the solution. The guy was stripped off of his face. I love Japan for being human. Small business bar or restaurant with 3 tables. Not everything should be streamlined for a quick call solution… the process was pushed on his head. Google nemawashi decision making process

> nemawashi Long time in Japan too, I would not consider newamashi as being Japan's strengths.

I can imagine what you mean, but since I am not in Japan, it would be interesting why you feel that way.

Re: End of Japanese community

#73

Post by o11c »

gyomu wrote: post #18

As a multilingual/multicultural human it’s been pretty weird witnessing what AI translation has been doing to regional languages & cultures on the internet in the last few years. Sure we had machine translation before, but it was still a little off. Now the latest language models get us 99.9% there, so they are judged good enough to deploy at scale. What results is a weird twilight zone where everything is in your la…

> The weirdest part is seeing this bubble up to the real world. I’ve been hearing young people use turns of phrases/expressions that I recognize as distinctly American, except not in English.

Calquing has been a common thing since long before AI translators, and it's not notable that it now happens for modern memes. It happens whenever a language is notable and nearby; English has a lot of calques from Greek/Latin/German/French as a result.

Ironically, "calque" is a loanword, but "loanword" is a calque.

Re: End of Japanese community

#74

Post by crazygringo »

dingnuts wrote: post #62
crazygringo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are a huge number of assumptions you're making, absolutely none of which are in the post. Generally speaking, orgs aren't trying to replace high-quality human translations with lower-quality machine translations. They are often trying to put machine translations in where there are no translations, though. Getting the balance right requires fine-tuning. And fine-tuning requires a quick call to start to better un…

and actually understanding their contributors would require a lot more than a fucking "quick call" that's the problem. stop thinking about the org and think about the person. these are volunteers who feel taken advantage of, being met with corporate jargon fly out and take him to dinner if you actually give a shit. or write a check. a "quick call" is so insulting

What are you talking about?

A quick call is a courteous first step. The other person might not have time for a long call, so you want to show you're respecting their time. Then you follow it up with a longer meeting with the relevant engineer and manager, etc. "Taking someone to dinner" is not the first step here. The way to show you care is by trying to understand the situation before anything else.

There is no world in which this is insulting.

Re: End of Japanese community

#75

Post by mewse-hn »

Incipient wrote: post #28
benatkin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said sorry for how you feel about it which is insincere and unhelpful.

My partner has been picking me up on the specifics of wording. Is there a slightly different phrasing that would make this better, or is it the sentiment that's crap? "I'm sorry for how these changes impacted you"? Personally just the sentiment feels insincere to me haha.

I don't think it's the specific phrasing. They could have said "I'll contact you by email to try and understand your concerns" and it's still dodging the explicit, concrete list of grievances.

However, "let's hop on a call" is just additionally dismissive.

Re: End of Japanese community

#76

Post by panny »

ezoe wrote: post #66

When the machine automation quality became okay enough, this conflict of interest happens. His demand of not using his existing work for AI training is nonsense. Because the entire article is stated: > Portions of this content are ©1998–2025 by individual mozilla.org contributors. Content available under a Creative Commons license. Didn't he agree on that? So, this contributor revealed he doesn't understand the licen…

You can rescind a license. If you own a property, it is yours. Even if you licensed it to someone, you own it and you can kick someone off. They can later address you for a breach of license, but it's still your property. You own it.

If mozilla wants to tell him that his work was valuable and therefore has grounds to sue him for rescinding the license, they will have a lot of difficulty proving that after their sumobot summarily deleted years of it for no good reason at a whim.

Good for him. He should probably consider suing them for destruction of his work.

Re: End of Japanese community

#77

Post by jacquesm »

> I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with.

Talk about being tone deaf. This was so incredibly rude. No consult, no request whether they wanted this or not. Mozilla keeps finding new ways to shoot itself in the foot, these are probably some of the most loyal people that you could wish for, that's a precious resource if there ever was one. And to add insult to injury they want to them 'hop on a call' and to 'trully[sic] understand what you're struggling with' even though they just spelled it out as clear as day.

Re: End of Japanese community

#78

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

crazygringo wrote: post #41
pseudalopex wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some grievances were vague. It doesn't follow our translation guidelines. What specific guidelines did it not follow? It doesn't respect current localization for Japanese users, so they were lost. What was not localized? Mozilla's response should not be limited to clarifying these grievances. But it could have been all the staff member who responded could do.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, you're exactly right. The person replying is probably not an expert in this. But they want to get more details so they can figure out how to get it to the right people with more information. This is how it's supposed to work.

* * *

Re: End of Japanese community

#79

Post by jacquesm »

Waterluvian wrote: post #71
jahsome wrote: post #10

I'm not really able to understand the finer details but I think I picked up enough to get the broad strokes. Really though, all I needed to see was the phrase "jump on a quick call" to form an irrationally strong opinion. That phrase instantly warms my entire body with rage.

I’m not sure those who speak like that are equipped to understand how offensive their words and tone can be. It suggests a decision can be reversed with a quick call, which questions one’s choices or conviction. As if to suggest the choice was made without considerable thought and care. It’s such an unserious tone to a moment that’s very serious to the other.

> As if to suggest the choice was made without considerable thought and care.

I guess it acts as a mirror of sorts though, because that's precisely how this decision appears to have been made in the first place. But it's clear that whoever represents Mozilla there is already assuming the fault lies with the person that just got kicked.

Re: End of Japanese community

#80

Post by 4bpp »

Incipient wrote: post #28
benatkin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said sorry for how you feel about it which is insincere and unhelpful.

My partner has been picking me up on the specifics of wording. Is there a slightly different phrasing that would make this better, or is it the sentiment that's crap? "I'm sorry for how these changes impacted you"? Personally just the sentiment feels insincere to me haha.

Two things stand out, besides what has been already mentioned.

* The infantile corporate-cutesy wording "hop on a call" is not appropriate when talking to somebody who feels that you deeply wronged them. It has the same vibes as cheery "Remember: At Juicero, we are all one big family!" signatures on termination notices, and Corporate Memphis.

* In the first sentence, Kiki says "about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced". Why is this level of detail shoehorned in? Everyone in that conversation already knows what it is about. It's as if Kiki can't resist the temptation to inject an ad/brag about their recently introduced workflow for any drive-by readers. "I'm sorry you were dissatisfied with your Apple(R) iPlunger X(TM), which is now available at major retailers for only $599!"

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