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Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

forbes.com

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Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#81

Post by vladvasiliu »

satellite2 wrote: post #61
csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

Of course. But what if the holding lives in a country that don't enforce this (or is too weak to). Then all the subsidiaries are really sovereign from the host country perspective. It seems the solution is ages old. Don't have the holding incorporated in an empire...

How would this work in practice? If the empire wants to get at your data, why do you think it would shy away from pressuring a country so weak that it can't afford to enforce this on their companies?

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#82

Post by thewebguyd »

potsandpans wrote: post #50
fukka42 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has no authority whatsoever over a foreign parent company. The US subsidiary also has no access to "foreign" data.

The US by and large can (and does) assert authority outside of its jurisdiction, from which another country can choose to capitulate. Most of the time countries do, because they are all swapping data on their citizens between themselves to skirt various laws. In the case where the US really wants something, and the country won't yield, they'll fund contras or destabilize the government (if small enough to be bullied)…

The unfortunate truth, 300,000 years later and humans still operate on "might makes right" whether militarily, or economically.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#83

Post by charles_f »

csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

Well this is especially significant because Microsoft is currently building a sovereign datacenter in France (nicknamed "Bleu"). I'm wondering what the consequence of that testimony will be.

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2025/04/30/europea...

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#84

Post by stetrain »

satellite2 wrote: post #61
csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

Of course. But what if the holding lives in a country that don't enforce this (or is too weak to). Then all the subsidiaries are really sovereign from the host country perspective. It seems the solution is ages old. Don't have the holding incorporated in an empire...

Then the empire just says that they want the data or you won't be allowed to operate in the empire, which would be bad for profits and anger shareholders.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#86

Post by pjmlp »

xorcist wrote: post #71
csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

That's not so. In a democratic state of law, the police can not unilaterally decide to seize you servers, and the politicians cannot tell the police to do so. Separation of powers is a thing.

Nice theory, that even on US isn't really working nowadays.

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#87

Post by Havoc »

mk89 wrote: post #66
Havoc wrote: post #59

The whole concept of big cloud somehow setting up sovereign clouds in Europe seems incredibly naive to me. Every AWS employee knows where his bread is buttered - Seattle not Brussels

Apparently someone buys it, otherwise AWS would not invest 8+ billions in Germany: https://www.aboutamazon.eu/news/aws/aws-plans-to-invest-7-8-... "If it's certified, it must be good".

They buy it because it's enough to tick the corporate compliance box. Decisions made by people that don't actually give a F

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#89

Post by ebb_earl_co »

autoexec wrote: post #68
csense wrote: post #60

This applies to any company, doesn't it? Your home country can tell you "Give us your data" and you have to comply. "I will never give up customer data" is a very tough promise to keep, if the government threatens you with your business license being revoked, your servers and domains being forcibly seized by the police, and you personally going to jail. (Under the current US administration, we can add "A close examin…

The trick is to collect as little data as possible and to get rid of what you need to collect as quickly as you can. This is in direct opposition to the practices of companies like Microsoft which wants to spy on their users and profit from the data they collect though. There's also an open question of how possible it is to run a system that doesn't collect/store data in a way that makes it possible to be collected b…

This is why I still prefer Signal; this practice seems to be their modus operandi even though they, too, were affected by AWS us-east-1 catastrophe

Re: Microsoft Can't Keep EU Data Safe from US Authorities

#90

Post by jeffrallen »

josephh wrote: post #21

But then who can? No global cloud providers, including Hetzner and OVH, are free from CLOUD act because they have US presence[1]. 1. https://us.ovhcloud.com/legal/faqs/cloud-act/

Exoscale is a European cloud provider with no exposure to the CLOUD Act.

(I work there.)

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