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Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

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Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#291

Post by dfe »

edbaskerville wrote: post #164
js2 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And 15 years before that was Hillarycare (1993): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_19... (Fuck you Bill Kristol.) There's a long, sad, littered history of attempts at universal care in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_health_care_reform_...

Bill Kristol has come a long way! He would vote for Mamdani...over Cuomo and Sliwa anyway. https://www.cmcforum.com/post/bill-kristol-says-he-would-vot... You can hear him discussing it here: https://www.thebulwark.com/p/bill-kristol-fake-news-on-60-mi... I'm also reminded of the time Jon Stewart got Bill Kristol to admit that a government-run health care system (the VA) was good: https://youtu.be/rRSZiWwiBuE

Bill Kristol is the same asshole he always was.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#292

Post by Ericson2314 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #115
nialv7 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda feel Obama is more of a Trojan horse. It was not he tried and failed to get what he campaigned for implemented, it was more like he did a U turn after he got elected. e.g. he called for universal health care but once he was elected he started saying it was "too radical". I hope the same doesn't happen with Zohran. If he was going to fail after all, I wish that will at least be after he had fought as hard as h…

> he called for universal health care but once he was elected he started saying it was "too radical" ACA was the most radical package that could have passed, and it still cost Democrats the Congress. This line of argument reminds of the folks who complained about Sinema and Manchin. You know what we’d have with a few more Sinemas and Manchins in the party right now? A majority. The bill that passes is better than the…

> ACA was the most radical package that could have passed, and it still cost Democrats the Congress.

Bad casual reasoning. There is so little evidence that voters care about policies years before they go into effect.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#293

Post by parineum »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #155
parineum wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bill that passes is better than the ideal that doesn’t. For your resume, sure. Sometimes reform only works when you fully commit and if half the country isn't on board, it's not better to pass some mutilated and watered down version.

> For your resume, sure No, for everyone. Some voters like politicians who pass zero legislation while holding firm to their values. Occasionally they get rewarded. Most often, they’re branded–correctly–ineffective. (And, I’d argue, unfit to lead. If you’re using millions of Americans as human shields to pass an ideologically-pure package, that’s immoral and belongs with Twitter celebrities, not leaders.)

You didn't mention the effectiveness or positive effects of the hypothetically passed legislation at all.

You're arguing that it's good for a politician's resume.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#294

Post by Ericson2314 »

nialv7 wrote: post #106
michaelbarton wrote: post #13

I hope this win signals (to both parties) that voters are receptive and will get engaged when a clear message is presented about cost of living and quality of life issues. Some of which are taken for granted in most other western countries. I’m no political wonk, and I’m curious what others with more insight might say about his ability to fund and implement his polices. I’m reminided of Obama and his hopeful message…

I kinda feel Obama is more of a Trojan horse. It was not he tried and failed to get what he campaigned for implemented, it was more like he did a U turn after he got elected. e.g. he called for universal health care but once he was elected he started saying it was "too radical". I hope the same doesn't happen with Zohran. If he was going to fail after all, I wish that will at least be after he had fought as hard as h…

There will be lots of pressure to on Zohran to do the same. But hopefully the cautionary tale that is Obama will be learned from.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#295

Post by parineum »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #174
parineum wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The bill that passes is better than the ideal that doesn’t. For your resume, sure. Sometimes reform only works when you fully commit and if half the country isn't on board, it's not better to pass some mutilated and watered down version.

This attitude is why Trump is president. Yeah we have a terrible leader, but we could have had a mediocre leader and I guess that is somehow worse in people's minds.

That doesn't track at all. I'm talking about legislation and, hence, legislatures.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#296

Post by bpye »

Maxatar wrote: post #43
wodenokoto wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren’t mayors in all countries politicians? In Denmark all mayors are identified with their party association when talked about in the news.

Reviewing various western democracies it looks like most mayoral candidates run affiliated with a political party. The exception is Canada where mayoral candidates run an independent campaign.

> The exception is Canada where mayoral candidates run an independent campaign.

That's not universal. The City of Vancouver for example has a party system, though the parties are largely not affiliated with provincial or federal parties. There are exceptions there as well though - the Vancouver Greens are affiliated with both the provincial and federal Green parties.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#297

Post by Aunche »

jgoodhcg wrote: post #224
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he called for universal health care but once he was elected he started saying it was "too radical" ACA was the most radical package that could have passed, and it still cost Democrats the Congress. This line of argument reminds of the folks who complained about Sinema and Manchin. You know what we’d have with a few more Sinemas and Manchins in the party right now? A majority. The bill that passes is better than the…

No. I think an honest attempt at doing something "radical" economically for the working class can cross the divides we have.

Radically changing healthcare works out great in people's heads, but then they immediately whine about their Ozempic no longer being covered like in socialized healthcare countries which don't use expensive cutting edge drugs as a first resort. No matter how competent the government is, which ours isn't, any radical change (besides just throwing more money at the problem) will make things worse before they are better and voters are the most fickle bunch there is.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#298

Post by [deleted] »

GenerWork wrote: post #170
octaane wrote: post #73

You guys have it all wrong. There was only one candidate for the dem party, Here's the list: 1) Cuomo. Sexpest who has been accused by many women of some pretty shitty stuff. Also a member of a multi-generational dynasty, which is not good. 2) Mayor Adams. Federally indicted by the Feds. They have a 99% conviction rate. Not because they're corrupt, but because they only go after people who have dome some really egreg…

>his policies are relatively common sense and middle of the road. Rent control isn't middle of the road, it's 100% socialist. Same thing with city run grocery stores. He also wants to defund the police while replacing them with community outreach people, as well as raising the minimum wage to $30 in 5 years which is absolutely wild. None of this is middle of the road in any way, shape, or form.

[deleted]

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#299

Post by Ericson2314 »

testfoobar wrote: post #52

Mamdani's and by extension, his voters', ignorance about the effects of price controls in markets will be an interesting real-time political experiment. When the inevitable unintended outcomes become to emerge who will be blamed? https://rentguidelinesboard.cityofnewyork.us/resources/apart... https://www.zohranfornyc.com/platform Quoting Paul Krugman (Nobel prize winner and liberal columnist at the NYT). "The analysi…

Rent stabilization (NYC jargon) already is here and is a mess. He's probably not about to make it worse.

Re: Zohran Mamdani wins the New York mayoral race

#300

Post by Workaccount2 »

HellDunkel wrote: post #281
lisbbb wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? I think many of us who are educated in history understand the risks of collectivism. It has never worked out anywhere. I see it as basically a marketing cover for oligarchy. The Western world should aspire to better than China. I'm not even a conservative, just read a lot. Humanity has had some pretty hellish experiences with communism and yet we keep "going there."

Greetings from western europe. Not so bad and communist around here. They call it social capitalism.

Western Europe would have been collapsing right now if daddy cold capitalist didn't show up with gas and guns to drive away the Russian bear.

Western Europe has been on vacation for 30 years. There is no future where they can stay on the path they have been on. European leaders recognize this, but how the hell do you get a generation raised with an easy life to recognize this?

Germans work 400 hours a year less than Americans, and they celebrate that. Good luck.

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