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Keep Android Open

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841–850 of 907 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#841
post #588
post #58

Back in the 2007 or when it came out in Sweden I bought the iPhone and started developing for it. This was cool, new and exciting and it was fine as long as my company was paying the $100 fee every year. But then I switched jobs and worked at a company which produced mostly open source code. Suddenly I would have to pay $100 every year just to be able to put my own software on the phone ... This is why I switched to…

I totally agree with your sentiment, but can't you still do that with Android? IIUC, you can still load apps directly via adb. Is that not correct?

Yes, you can still do that directly (I did that just the other day).

I can't entirely understand Google's announcement, but it almost sounded to me like they will forbid sideloading if you're not an "official" dev (gone through their hoops). I also saw something in their statement about wanting to support hobbyists. It sounded like an afterthought.

Re: Keep Android Open

#842

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fairly easy to get control of anyone's phone number without interacting with them in any form. Just some social engineering at the kiosk in the mall. It is extremely common for people's phone numbers to be stolen (even if temporarily), and then their bank accounts drained.

> Just some social engineering at the kiosk in the mall What scenario does a kiosk at the mall get control of my phone number but not control of my phone? I don't see how remote attestation solves anything here. Does the bank suddenly know a stranger is holding my phone? We go from me needing to open a web browser on my computer and getting verified on my phone, to now my most important operations have to be from my…

> What scenario does a kiosk at the mall get control of my phone number but not control of my phone?

You can e.g. smooth-talk the customer service at a kiosk to give you replacement SIM card for the one you've "lost".

This is why banks increasingly don't trust your phone number, and their apps tie themselves to the phone itself, i.e. to hardware and OS IDs. But to trust those IDs, they need the phone to pass remote attestation.

Re: Keep Android Open

#843
post #797
post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it forces you to keep running with more and more speed just to stay where you are, I wouldn't call it as "benefits of society and civilization". A lot of what we call as progress is a forced transformation of basic needs for the gains of business and politics not people. Even the healthcare, which everyone thinks as a "benefit" of the progress, only resulted in having lopsided demographic pyramid with countries fu…

Countries aren't full of old people because of healthcare, they're full of old people because birthrates plummeted after one of the largest generations ever was born in the post-war period.

Causality is complicated and probably impossible to untangle, but the vast decreases in both infant/early child and maternal mortality played a huge role here.

If half your children didn't die by age 20 (or 5), it was possible to have much smaller families. Industrialisation and urbanisation made children net liabilities rather than household assets (providing labour even at a very young age). Financialisation of real estate along with the rest of the economy made earning and saving money critical, and made non-cash or low-cash lifestyles highly marginal (self-sufficient existence or providing many goods and services through the home directly). All that in combination with improved adult lifespans meant that the demographic pyramid consolidated at the bottom and expanded at the top. There are still countries where this isn't the case, most notably now in sub-Saharan Africa, particularly where HIV/AIDS remains endemic:

Contrast Tanzania and Italy, for example:

https://www.indexmundi.com/tanzania/age_structure.html>

https://www.indexmundi.com/italy/age_structure.html>

Re: Keep Android Open

#844
post #631

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So what? That sounds like competition, which is healthy in a free market. And it's not a service, it's a copy. Customers are explicitly allowed to resell it, and they have. And I still earn enough cash to continue developing it. And I have the search engine top hits. And I have thousands of social media comments linking to my website. Copying a business isn't just about copying the product. They have to copy my reput…

> So what? That sounds like competition, which is healthy in a free market. No, it's not. Under capitalism, if Amazon could just take your book and start selling it without paying you a cent then nobody would be incentivized to write books anymore. That's the entire point of copyright. I don't know what your business is, maybe you really carved out a niche that works for you, but it's not built on top of solid princi…

> That's the entire point of copyright.

And the entire point of copy/left/ is to make the code a public good, a commodity. Everyone owns the code I write, and everyone is entitled to make a business from it.

If they have better marketing than me, earning a lot more money than me with the verbatim program, that sounds like my software was priced wrong and I should set the price higher. How high -- $50,000/copy? Who knows. If someone wants to make themselves my distributor, they /should/ get paid for that.

That kind of competition -- yes, it is competition -- would inspire /cooperation/. That would give both of us, the distributor and myself, incentive to work together to maximize both of our profits.

Another example is with my program itself. It's a desktop application, a local management client for a tablet that otherwise must use its manufacturer's cloud service. I am directly competing with the manufacturer. When I receive money for my program, $12/year, they loose a customer of their service, -$36/year. BUT -- many, and I mean MANY of my customers told me they would have returned their $500 tablet were it not for my software, after using which, made them keep the hardware. I estimate that my software has saved the manufacturer over $500,000 in returns.

That means: my software has /increased/ the total value of my competitor, and we are /both/ making profit. My software literally expanded their market.

And if a distributor of the verbatim program wants to expand /my/ market, I'm all for that. But I don't think they will, because /they know/ that anyone else can do exactly what they're doing. They need to add something of value. Sometimes, marketing can be value, sure. More value is derived from the program itself -- that's why people buy it in the first place. Not because of its marketing, but because of its function.

And if they improve my program, the function, they MUST release the complete corresponding source code, and they MUST do so granting forwards the same copyleft privileges I gave them. And that means I can, and will, take their improvements and merge them back into my original product. And since I have the first mover advantage, the reputation, the search engine hits, the community engagement, I will probably win.

And if I don't win, the user /does/. They get a better product at a better price. That's the WHOLE POINT of free software, that it's good for the user, not for the developer. It's the kind of software I use myself, so I elect to write it, too. It's the world I want to live in.

You have an obsolete understanding of the world, a misunderstanding of the motivations of free software, and are totally wrong about the dynamics of selling free software.

Re: Keep Android Open

#845

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s precisely because it’s a filter, they _want_ to filter for people who take it seriously and/or are seeking app sales. This is a company that chooses to pay people to review every app submitted to the app store, they don’t want millions of apps by tinkerers being submitted, and it reduces total crapware in the store. I’m not necessarily advocating for this approach, just explaining why they do it. Doesn’t the pla…

Then why don't they make it stupid easy to just make a build for the iPhone and transfer it directly? Also, I am highly suspicious that they check every app submitted to the app store with a human.

They do? I did it last week. Build and run on device on Xcode is one button.

Re: Keep Android Open

#846

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally I wouldn’t want to have an account with any bank that allowed permanently open api’s - an attacker gets one auth and then can see my balance forever? No thanks.

And that would give the attacker exactly what? Yes, I can come up with scenarios where this gives an attacker exactly what they need to time some scam (or mugging) perfectly. I can just as easily come up with scenarios where the same attacker uses already available (or inferrable) information for the same purpose. Look, many banks are perfectly fine with letting you opt into showing the account balance on their app b…

It would give them my balance, something extremely private to me. Not sure what you’re not getting about that.

There’s good reasons you can’t do this, and sure, maybe you don’t care about those reasons, but you’d be in the minority.

Re: Keep Android Open

#847

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point, but I disagree that you need direct involvement in the legal process. Companies are moved by money, if your tech is popular enough companies will dance to your tune. Say that you get to a point where 90% of desktop users are on linux. Is there any doubt that banks, messaging platforms and the like would have their own linux apps? no matter how many hoops you make them pass through, they won't let th…

Companies are moved by money, if your tech is popular enough companies will dance to your tune. I don't disagree, and I guess I'd say that I think that is all part of the larger point. Eg, "getting more people to use (Linux|BSD|Minix|Mach|Whatever)" is part of the larger idea of "social pressure" to convince companies to behave in ways that we find desirable. So the question then is, as far as I can tell, what more c…

s/out existing mastery/our existing mastery/

Damn typo. And missed the edit window. Sorry. :-(

Re: Keep Android Open

#848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Before buying a smartphone I tried to find an inexpensive model that supports open source OS, but I couldn't. What open OS support is ether expensive Pixels, or outdated models. You can buy a refurbished Pixel 5 for less than 200$. Great screen, great camera, 5G, the works. It's definitely not an "outdated" device, and it runs Graphene or Lineage with minimal hassle.

The battery probably lost its capacity in 3-4 years since release.

If only things could be made so parts that wear out can be swapped at a repair shop...

More seriously: I believe many refurbished resellers do swap a new battery on the higher quality tiers.

Re: Keep Android Open

#849
post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess some are more bothered by this than others. A bit harsh to claim there is deception going on. Like I said, I’ve never paid Apple a fee and I have several original apps on my iPhone.

This is like calling a Tesla car a spacecraft because one got launched by a rocket. It's like saying you're a free man in prison because you don't want to go anywhere. All the apps you've made either can't connect with other people or require them to be local and visit once a week or be able to jump through the same hoops as you and own a machine to install the app. "I can install an app but my definition of an app i…

These are the most hyperbolic metaphors I have seen on HN within at least the last few months.

Re: Keep Android Open

#850
post #835

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web standards have progressed but your other points would still apply. Does there exist a company or project that has the resources to develop a smartphone with better performance, UI, and cost than Android or iOS devices? Microsoft couldn't pull it off, and I am skeptical that Meta would have been able to. I can imagine an alternative smartphone carving out a niche audience like older users, FLOSS enthusiasts, digit…

Nobody was wanting to pay for and deal with the Microsoft lock in. A new web-centric OS could fix those issues by doing a few things to reduce friction. First, use an Android-compatible kernel version so drivers are easy to port. This gets manufacturers on board. Second, make your App Store a non-profit that charges enough for ongoing store development and distribution. This gets devs on board. Third, make sure you h…

> Second, make your App Store a non-profit that charges enough for ongoing store development and distribution. This gets devs on board

You're hilariously underestimating the difficulty of getting the dev/user flywheel started: developers go where users are, and users won't adopt a platform without the apps they need. Microsoft was literally paying devs for submitting apps, and they mostly got variants of Flashlight apps, and none of the apps that matter. Look at the top 10 App Store/Play Store apps and ask yourself if the developers will bother with a hypothetical non-profit, upstart

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