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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#681

Post by jraph »

hedora wrote: post #390
bigfishrunning wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're worried about a for-profit company having sway over your computer, Ubuntu is not really the choice to make. Please consider running upstream Debian; there are very few downsides, but the upside is that it is run by an organization that is not (and never will be) driven by profits. Also, it seems a little silly to donate to Ubuntu, which is maintained by a for-profit company.

Ubuntu controls a big voting block in debian’s organization. They forced systemd in, for example. Devuan is a good enough compromise for me. The OS is stable, and the only issues I’ve had involve hacking curl|bash scripts that fail to realize they should just install the debian version. (Steam and docker run well.)

Even without counting Ubuntu, was there a significant number of people against systemd in Debian, with convincing arguments?

Re: Keep Android Open

#682

Post by spookie »

bayindirh wrote: post #413
tinfoilhatter wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when your smartphone is required to verify your identity so you can work / earn a paycheck? What about when it's required in order for you to engage in commerce? We're headed down a very slippery slope and the destination is a very dystopian reality where those in power can prevent someone from participating in society on a whim. I believe the destination has previously been described as the beast system o…

We're already there. Attestation is not in your phone, but in your ID card. European passports and ID cards carry biometric data of your face, so you can be computationally verified. I'm aware of this slippery slope for a very long time, esp. with AI (check my comments if you prefer). On the other hand, I believe that we need to choose our battles wisely. We believe that technology is the cause of these things, it's…

I feel better having a physical token like an ID than it being on my phone, however.

Re: Keep Android Open

#683

Post by drnick1 »

liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Why would you want to start over with a new platform when Android (as a FOSS project) is already most of the way there in terms of freedom and usability? The only problem are "apps" that depend on proprietary Google libraries. This only concerns a minority of apps, but notably includes some foreign banks that require the "app" as second authentication factor.

Perhaps this could be regulated by law or executive power, but considering that governments themselves have created apps that depend on proprietary software, I am not too hopeful. But as long as the same "app" is accessible through a browser, this remains a minor inconvenience.

Re: Keep Android Open

#684

Post by drnick1 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

> Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...).

The only real issue here is banks that don't offer an equivalent website or require the "app" as authentication factor. I couldn't care less about copyrighted media. It's only fair that I source my media from the high seas when the only options that respect their "rights" infringe my own right to run free software on my devices.

Re: Keep Android Open

#685

Post by lanfeust6 »

kube-system wrote: post #610
jayd16 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All functionality found on the web.

Have you tried? * Netflix does not load in a mobile browser, it directs you to download their app. * web.telegram.org sends a 2FA push notification to their app * Apple wallet/ Android wallet do not have web apps * Popular dating apps, e.g. Hinge do not have web apps * Some social network apps, e.g. BeReal do not have web apps. Many others have reduced features. * I have never seen a keyless entry app that supports t…

Firefox supports Netflix web app. It prompts you to install the Widevine plugin.

Re: Keep Android Open

#686

Post by jb1991 »

rezonant wrote: post #572
jb1991 wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing it that way for years on the free account, never seemed like a bother to me. I usually have a tweak I want to make to the code anyway. But I suppose some might find it inconvenient. In any case, to say you can't put your own apps on your phone without paying a fee is incorrect, which is the comment I was responding to.

Saying what youve said above and knowing full well how this works, but failing to mention a crucial fact like this is deceptive.

I guess some are more bothered by this than others. A bit harsh to claim there is deception going on. Like I said, I’ve never paid Apple a fee and I have several original apps on my iPhone.

Re: Keep Android Open

#687

Post by the_pwner224 »

treyd wrote: post #665
the_pwner224 wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Root access isn't available by default, but it takes about 120 seconds (including waiting for it to reboot) to add it.

Last I checked the situation was similar to what it is in Calyx, which is that it's not officially supported and you have to keep manually reapplying the root after every update.

Oh yep, forgot about that. I barely ever update so I only have to re-root 2-3x a year.

Re: Keep Android Open

#688

Post by ulrikrasmussen »

upboundspiral wrote: post #624
ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we need laws and regulation. And the most important thing we need is not governments forcing Android to be open, but laws requiring governments to not force their citizens to use locked down hardware. My government, Denmark, is one of the most digitized societies in the world. While the government has allocated money to a committee to investigate how the country can become less dependent on American big t…

Your post made me contemplate how other entities want to be able to attest themselves (in your case the government wants to be able to verify the identity of its citizens). Moral and legal arguments aside, the way they are going about it is a bit sloppy in that they are banking their sovereignty on a third party instead of taking the reins themselves. Instead of mandating google/apple signed applications, they could…

I strongly agree, this is very possible and would be what a competent government should do. It would also ensure that they had a fallback that was guaranteed to work if a certain authoritarian ruler decided to suddenly use our reliance on Google and Apple for critical infrastructure as a weapon to put pressure on us, say if he wanted control of a piece of land.

It would also open up for some interesting and innovative competition in personal hardware security devices.

Re: Keep Android Open

#689

Post by davisr »

andoando wrote: post #658
davisr wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? That sounds like competition, which is healthy in a free market. And it's not a service, it's a copy. Customers are explicitly allowed to resell it, and they have. And I still earn enough cash to continue developing it. And I have the search engine top hits. And I have thousands of social media comments linking to my website. Copying a business isn't just about copying the product. They have to copy my reput…

Sure, link me to your codebase and I'll give it an active try and lets see what happens. There's no doubt putting up your source code makes your business much easier to copy. If I spent a year building something sophisticated with the intent of selling it, why would I give someone else, with possibly more resources to market, a free competition? It may have worked out for you, but I think so non nonchalant saying "it…

You can pay me $12 for it.

Re: Keep Android Open

#690

Post by array_key_first »

jb1991 wrote: post #671
array_key_first wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incorrect. If you want to load the app on your own phone WITHOUT the app store, you MUST pay Apple 100 dollars. Unless you want to rebuild the app every 7 days, which any reasonable human will conclude is a stupid ass arbitrary limitation. Again, it cannot be justified with any technical means. Please, don't even bother trying.

You are contradicting yourself in your comment.

I don't think you read my comment.

Trying to get me on an "erm well akshually" level semantic argument means you're wrong, you know you're wrong, and now you're just being annoying.

Both of us can agree that the 7 day limitation is far too stringent to be a legitimate solution. So we will go ahead and pretend it does not exist, because for all intents and purposes, it doesn't.

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