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China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

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Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#301

Post by whatevertrevor »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #239
jimbokun wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assigning blame and guilt is pointless. Just look at how well it has worked to motivate the US to change. That is to say, not at all. The only thing moving the needle is renewables and nuclear generating power more cheaply than fossil fuels, so it becomes stupid to not switch to them even if you have no regard for the long term health of the environment.

It's not about assigning blame. Per capita emissions give us a better idea of which groups of people require the largest change in their lifestyle in order to hit net zero. The current numbers suggest that the typical person in the US will have to do a lot more to hit net-zero than the typical person in China. Obviously, you can do better and estimate per capita emissions for each province/state/city or by wealth lev…

That still sounds like assigning blame and a vague call to "change lifestyle", instead of concrete action plans for energy, manufacturing, transportation and agricultural sectors. That is where the bulk of emissions are, not some billionaire's yacht or private jet.

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#302

Post by omikun »

jama211 wrote: post #255
andrewflnr wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really respect the hell out of the nation of China if it wasn't for the authoritarianism and imperialism.

And oppression of Tibet and the Uyghur people and other human rights violations…

Have you heard of this thing called the new Jim Crow?

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#303

Post by overfeed »

jopsen wrote: post #285
scoopertrooper wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go hand in hand. The authoritarianism of China allows it to undertake generational projects of immense scale with mass popular support through propaganda. It works well when the government is pursuing welfare maximising initiatives, but limits self-correction when the government goes off track. A small example of it going wrong, was when Mao convinced peasants to exterminate Sparrows and other ‘pests’ only to se…

> They go hand in hand. The authoritarianism of China allows it to undertake generational projects... Lack of free press makes it easy to look successful. It was the same thing with the Soviet union, was it ever really successful at any point?

> It was the same thing with the Soviet union, was it ever really successful at any point?

America had to go to all the way to the moon to win a "first" against the Soviet Union in space.

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#304

Post by xethos »

rtpg wrote: post #167
votepaunchy wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> embrace and profit massively off of next gen energy infrastructure Our children’s generation will never forgive us for abandoning nuclear energy abundance. Truly a crime against humanity.

There was still a perfectly nice window of opportunity even scratching nuclear from the list. My other glib thing about nuclear is that France, a much denser nation than the US (though of course density is a local property...), has a bunch of nuclear, but even with "full" buy-in it's hard to make the whole thing profitable, and a lot of the nuclear reactors are running at like 80% capacity. Electricity is pretty fung…

> a lot of the nuclear reactors are running at like 80% capacity.

This is presumably intentional. Beyond longevity, being able to shift one plant to 0 and take up the load across other plants allows for continued uptime even with a plant down (or just below capacity).

> it's hard to make the whole thing profitable

Considering France had the second-cheapest electicity for industrial use in the EU (in 2015, the most recent date from Wikipedia), this feels more regulatory-bassed than a properly fair shot at "Look how expensive nuclear is"

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#305

Post by tshaddox »

leodler wrote: post #282
scoopertrooper wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They go hand in hand. The authoritarianism of China allows it to undertake generational projects of immense scale with mass popular support through propaganda. It works well when the government is pursuing welfare maximising initiatives, but limits self-correction when the government goes off track. A small example of it going wrong, was when Mao convinced peasants to exterminate Sparrows and other ‘pests’ only to se…

Somehow we (the United States) accomplished generational projects that are currently out of the realm of possibility such as the interstate system without risking anything like a famine. I think a lot of people in America have been overly-empowered to stand in the way of the most modest progress through NIMBYism, litigation, local government, etc. To a lot of people it increasingly feels like a form of private author…

Presumably many of the people who currently attribute China’s ability to build infrastructure to authoritarianism would also attribute America’s past ability to build infrastructure to authoritarianism. They would presumably also decry any future attempts to build ambitious infrastructure in America as authoritarianism.

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#306

Post by mcdeltat »

hooverd wrote: post #164
9dev wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bill Gates is fundamentally anthrophilic, so his concern is above all human suffering. I think that’s a valid viewpoint, but also shortsighted; keeping this planet habitable will require tough decisions and sacrifices, and should stay the utmost priority, out of sheer necessity.

ah, the classic "you are a sacrifice I'm willing to make"

Oh no, to save the world we'll have to take the train to work instead of a car...

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#307

Post by Terr_ »

kulahan wrote: post #56
cyberax wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is opposite to everything I've ever read. A brief "greening" period was expected (and is now nearing its end) as climate change started taking off due specifically to this effect. Edit: to clarify, I'm saying the greening thing already happened due to increases in CO2 levels (though it's possible this is due to heat and not CO2 itself, I guess?).

Hmmm, separately of plant-types, I wonder if there may be a distinction here between how a surge in individual growth doesn't necessarily translate to a surge in the forest.

Imagine a higher CO2 concentration allows a tree to reach maturity a whole +25% faster, taking 16y instead of 20y. However its happening in an established forest, already bounded by mountains, rivers, etc, where mature trees sustain for another 100y before they finally die off and take 10y to decompose, opening the spot for a replacement.

In that case, the number of simultaneous trees doesn't go up very much, because the main effect is to reduce "downtime". The "duty-cycle" for a tree-sized patch of ground goes from having a mature tree ~77% of the time to ~79%.

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#308

Post by lwansbrough »

z2 wrote: post #278
onethought wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imperialism? Expand.

The most charitable interpretation I can think of, if OP didn't misuse the word, would be, the generic "China bad" narrative being applied to things like equating the Belt and Road (loans, infrastructure projects) to centuries of old-fashioned exploitation of Africa. After all, it takes one to know one.

It’s not that hard to find examples. Chinese incursions in the south China sea and the development of artificial islands to project power and control over the region. Their plans for Taiwan. The annexation of Tibet. Xinjiang ethnic cleansing. Erosion of democratic freedoms in Hong Kong SAR. And yes the entire Belt and Road initiative which is basically loan sharking.

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#309

Post by renewiltord »

nitwit005 wrote: post #241
renewiltord wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, all that's happened is that we declared that morality started on Apr 22 2016. Slash and burn, cut and grow. Three hundred years from now, when the result is massive prosperity we can pontificate to whomever is cutting trees then.

You're not managing to be coherent I'm afraid.

[flagged]

Re: China has added forest the size of Texas since 1990

#310

Post by rangestransform »

onethought wrote: post #261
jama211 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And oppression of Tibet and the Uyghur people and other human rights violations…

A mean not to go too deep into whataboutism… but at least they only persecute their own Muslims rather than picking random countries on a map and persecuting them.

I would rather live in a country that points the guns outward, rather than inward
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