Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

751–760 of 907 posts

Re: Keep Android Open

#751

Post by jayd16 »

qingcharles wrote: post #736
jayd16 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I get an example of a single one that can't be found on the web?

I seem to remember Venmo and Cash App had near useless web portals. TikTok's web app is very poor. Reddit's mobile app has functions not available on web. I bet the McDonald's web site doesn't let you order for pickup and get the deals (does Starbucks?). CapCut's web site sucks, and their desktop app is missing a bunch of features the mobile app has. I'd guess an absolute ton of betting apps don't work on the web bec…

I think you're misunderstanding my conjecture. My point is that there is no technical reason these features can't live on the web. I'm not talking about the incidental or intentional decision by some company to force user behavior by not providing a web solution.

Re: Keep Android Open

#752

Post by zikduruqe »

grepex wrote: post #591
zikduruqe wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Looks like GrapheneOS will be available on another "major Android OEM” soon. I'm secretly hoping that this will be Framework or Nothing.

Could either of those be considered a major Android OEM? I was thinking Motorola.

True. Or maybe resurrect HTC.

Re: Keep Android Open

#753

Post by fluidcruft »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #670
fluidcruft wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the answer is to put whatever the banks etc need on something like a smartwatch. Smartwatch + phone is better than two phones IMHO and they're so tedious to use/install anything on that it reduces the attack surface for hackers etc. Tap to pay or digital signatures or identity, passkeys etc via a smartwatch interaction seems like a good use case. Sort of a souped up yubikey. I don't know how good biometrics is…

Still, the problem is that if you go this way, you'd have to put almost all useful functionality of a modern phone on a smartwatch, at which point you could just ditch the phone. It's not just one tiny use case that's pushing us down the road of increasingly locked down devices. It's most use cases - because no matter the service, it's more profitable for the provider to control what you can and cannot do.

I don't think that's actually true? That's like insisting all useful functionality would have to be moved to a smartcard/yubikey/bitcoin hardware wallet/TPM etc. The main reason this is an issue is to prevent emulated hardware tokens. If you can disable secure boot, you can emulate secure elements and then things that others (i.e. your bank, government, etc) believe are carefully controlled secrets are not.

Re: Keep Android Open

#754

Post by phendrenad2 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #716
phendrenad2 wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet I can open my bank's website on my Linux desktop, using Firefox. The "players" are not all-powerful, and defeatism serves no one.

Yes, but what do you use as a second factor to authenticate and confirm money transfers? In large parts of the world, the answer is usually "my uprooted, remotely attested smartphone". Increasingly, it's becoming the only supported method. When that's the case, what you use to load the banking UI doesn't matter anymore - the mobile device is the only actual requirement.

No, I use a dumb phone. Do you have anything more to say?

Re: Keep Android Open

#755

Post by keeda »

bfkwlfkjf wrote: post #709
clcaev wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stallman was right. Stallman did not find an economic model that works within our business/legal environment.

Non sequitor. He was right about what companies would do if allowed, and that's the most important thing to keep in mind.

There wasn't much foresight required on his part because companies were already doing things like this way back when. As a trivial example, patents on DRM predate the oft-cited "Right To Read" by a decade or more. Stallman just observed these trends and took an opposing stance without (to GP's point) really addressing the economic incentives and nuances involved.

Maybe his biggest contribution is that his extreme stance and ensuing visibility probably helped shift the Overton window.

Re: Keep Android Open

#756

Post by AndyKelley »

jrflowers wrote: post #55
anonym29 wrote: post #2

I've got my Linux smartphone running and ready to go. VWYF, folks. I'll take shitty software and poor battery life over digital authoritarianism every single time. "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

>VWYF, folks Volkswagen Your Face Vincent Wants Yummy Fries Viewing Worked Yesterday, Frank Voyeur Whom You Fuck Veiled Widows You Fancy Vore Website? Yes, Free!

Very witty. You're funny!

Re: Keep Android Open

#757

Post by jrflowers »

AndyKelley wrote: post #756
jrflowers wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>VWYF, folks Volkswagen Your Face Vincent Wants Yummy Fries Viewing Worked Yesterday, Frank Voyeur Whom You Fuck Veiled Widows You Fancy Vore Website? Yes, Free!

Very witty. You're funny!

Very Welcome,

-Your Friend

Re: Keep Android Open

#758

Post by TheRoque »

state_less wrote: post #356
TeMPOraL wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

Back in '99 Linux didn't run Excel/Word/Powerpoint or most games, but I ran it anyway. What others call showstoppers are for me inconveniences. I have a motorolla edge 2024 that I'll load whatever open source phone OS will work well enough to place calls and browse the web. I'll keep another phone for the rare times some corporate/government overlord requires it. Many folks who refuse to use smartphones, similarly ow…

> Back in '99 Linux didn't run Excel/Word/Powerpoint

It still doesn't btw.

Re: Keep Android Open

#759

Post by worik »

noosphr wrote: post #642
TeMPOraL wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology has a ratchet effect at scale - as a solution becomes widely adopted, it switches from being a convenience to being a necessity, because people start building more stuff on top of it. It's as true of to-the-minute accurate clocks as it is of smartphone banking. You can still run a version of Word from 2004. It's fine, if all you need is to write some thoughts down for yourself. But the moment you need to c…

Word from 2004 works better than the office 365 version. I've used it in the last three years to automate document generation in an enterprise because the latest versions of word: 1). Randomly break during automatic updates you can't really turn off. 2). Automatically upload everything to the cloud even when you tell them no. This isn't the 90s when closed software was better. We are firmly in the enshitification sta…

Office 365 failed utterly today....

Re: Keep Android Open

#760

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

noisy_boy wrote: post #428
fooqux wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just use a second phone" cannot be the answer because 99% of people will just scoff at that. Instead of buying a second phone, why not just buy one that works? And that's to say nothing of the environmental impact.

> "just use a second phone" cannot be the answer It is the best answer at the moment. You can keep an absolute basic phone with all the banking and such apps loaded and nothing else. You treat it like an appliance. Your daily driver will be separate and can be running PostmarketOS or LineageOS etc. There are several benefits off the top of my head: 1. Since you only install banking/govt type apps on your "important"…

Been doing this for years. Old phone for testing apps and running servers

All the Google stuff is disabled, open source Contacts app,^1 no Google Play Services, no access to remote DNS, Netguard for application firewall and port forwarding, with computer I control as gateway. 1. Have yet to find any other app that can access contacts when storing them this way, even the Meta's biggest Trojans

Meanwhile, new phone, "important phone", stays offline. Wifi off. Location off. path?.xtracloud.net blocked. Phone is used for texting and phone calls, no internet access

The "banking app" argument, i.e., either install a custom ROM or give up or submit to surveillance, is a false dichotomy. There are other options

I don't use a phone for internet banking, I use a computer I can control; there is no "banking app" (talk about high risk, geez)

The "banking app" problem is a common refrain on HN but in the real world I know many people who do not use a phone for internet banking

Mobile OS just suck. It's like being forced to use MS Windows

Post reply on HN