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Keep Android Open

keepandroidopen.org

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Re: Keep Android Open

#601

Post by mindcrime »

torben-friis wrote: post #517
mindcrime wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a trivial and non-critical need, but it's also exemplifying the basic user freedoms being denied to us: the ability to freely process information on my own device. I hate to risk sounding like I'm beating a dead horse, but when I hear this I flash back to Attack Surface by Cory Doctorow. I interpreted his message in that book as something approximately like "you can't out-tech the bad guys", where "bad guys" can…

I see your point, but I disagree that you need direct involvement in the legal process. Companies are moved by money, if your tech is popular enough companies will dance to your tune. Say that you get to a point where 90% of desktop users are on linux. Is there any doubt that banks, messaging platforms and the like would have their own linux apps? no matter how many hoops you make them pass through, they won't let th…

Companies are moved by money, if your tech is popular enough companies will dance to your tune.

I don't disagree, and I guess I'd say that I think that is all part of the larger point. Eg, "getting more people to use (Linux|BSD|Minix|Mach|Whatever)" is part of the larger idea of "social pressure" to convince companies to behave in ways that we find desirable. So the question then is, as far as I can tell, what more can use techies do - leveraging out existing mastery of technology - to promote "(Linux|BSD|Minix|Mach|Whatever)" to people who don't currently understand the importance of these issues?

And I don't mean to claim that "using our tech knowledge" is the only kind of activism that matters. Maybe for some people it's just "donate money to the EFF every month" or whatever. But to me, that's all still part of the same general initiative.

Re: Keep Android Open

#602

Post by GuB-42 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #323
liendolucas wrote: post #283

I'm going to say something that probably will get me down votes: Why do we have to beg Google to keep Android open? Seriously. So many open source projects have risen out of real and concrete needs and successfully made their way into our every day lives. A new platform needs to rise that breaks out completely from Google. I've given PostmarketOS a go (with a PinePhone) and while today I can't say it isn't a daily dr…

Answer: bank/financial apps, enterprise apps, government apps and copyrighted media (music, video, games, books, ...). Those are the players that demand excessive control over end-user devices, and thus the ultimate driver behind the problem we're discussing. It's not that a new mobile platform couldn't possibly succeed. It's an open platform that cannot, because aforementioned players don't want it, and without them…

This is the reason I have given up on thinking of smartphones as general purpose computers. I used to root my phone on day one, play with custom ROMs, etc...

But then, it became more and more annoying with apps blocking root access, features being unavailable to custom ROMs, etc... There are workarounds (is Magisk still a thing?), but I got tired of them.

So now, I just buy an entry level Samsung, which is well supported, runs all the apps I need (browser, financial, maps, chat, ...) and takes recognizable pictures. It is just a boring tool, like a credit card, I need one because that's the world we live in, but the object itself is of no importance.

If I want to play with a computer, I have a "real" computer. If, at some point, I get interested in smartphones as a platform, I will buy one just for this, in the same way that I have no intention of using the credit card I buy stuff with should I want to play with smartcards.

It has also killed my desire to spend money on a smartphone. What's the point of a $1000 device? What's to point of upgrading unless forced to by planned obsolescence? Why should I pay more than $200 every 5 year or so? They are all the same to me. They even all have the same form factor, besides overpriced and fragile foldables.

Re: Keep Android Open

#603

Post by upboundspiral »

bayindirh wrote: post #433
state_less wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I booted Slackware from a pile of floppies back then. I thought the Germans had a pretty good offering with SuSE at the time. Look I get it, even back then, most folks felt Windows was the obvious choice (and still do) for their jobs and so on. Sometimes you have to make do with with the unappealing choice in front of you. For a little more context, my cracked screen iPhone can still do banking or whatever, but I cho…

Slackware always brings out the inner teen in me. I feel giddy like in the old days. I need to install and maintain it somewhere some time, just for kicks. I support FOSS wholeheartedly, and believe that it's possible to have a device which is completely Free (not Open but, Free) from hardware design to firmware and software. On the other hand, there are some nasty realities which bring hard questions. For example, r…

I don't think open source and not allowing people to break laws with impunity are at odds. Because there are laws governing airwaves. I think there would need to be some sort of legal entity (foundation?) that would need to steward open firmware + enable it to be locked down so regulations can be followed, but I don't think the two are somehow irreconcilable. The first example that comes to mind is how all the linuxes work with "secure boot" (all of its ridiculousness aside). I think it would be a more effort than that but I truly believe that it is possible to have trust and openness and following regulation. The idea that only a proprietary company can follow the law and comply with regulations is in my opinion strictly false.

Re: Keep Android Open

#605

Post by jama211 »

state_less wrote: post #407
bayindirh wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Feel free to complain, but don't forget you can make choices. Of course. I can make a choice. When the choice is between being able to login to secure services with my SIM embedded e-signature, use mobile banking and conduct official business and not being able to do any of these things, making choices are easy. Running Linux on desktop is easy mode when compared to phones, and yes, I started using Linux on desktop…

I booted Slackware from a pile of floppies back then. I thought the Germans had a pretty good offering with SuSE at the time. Look I get it, even back then, most folks felt Windows was the obvious choice (and still do) for their jobs and so on. Sometimes you have to make do with with the unappealing choice in front of you. For a little more context, my cracked screen iPhone can still do banking or whatever, but I cho…

It’s fairly unappealing to carry around two devices also.

Re: Keep Android Open

#606

Post by Arainach »

bluGill wrote: post #594
TeMPOraL wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology has a ratchet effect at scale - as a solution becomes widely adopted, it switches from being a convenience to being a necessity, because people start building more stuff on top of it. It's as true of to-the-minute accurate clocks as it is of smartphone banking. You can still run a version of Word from 2004. It's fine, if all you need is to write some thoughts down for yourself. But the moment you need to c…

Which is why we need to ban together. Libreoffice isn't dominate, but it has enough market share that it can't be completely ignored. Also if you are using it you are not alone - you are an annoying deviation, but there are enough of you that many cannot ignore you. The more people who also use libreoffice the more power we have. If we can get to just 5% market share we cannot be ignored. (it need not be libreoffice,…

>but it has enough market share that it can't be completely ignored.

This is the Hacker News bubble in action. Most of the world, most of America, most of China, India, etc. haven't even heard of it. They ignore it and they thrive. Maybe you need to pay attention if you're dealing with certain European governments these days - I'm not sure because I completely ignore it and haven't paid attention since there was just OpenOffice and LibreOffice didn't even exist yet.

Re: Keep Android Open

#607

Post by warkdarrior »

juris wrote: post #67
999900000999 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which brand do you suggest ? Google wants my apartment lease to let me distribute free games, so I just won't support their platform. This is not about security, it's about control.

gonna say: the pinephone has been hell over the last few weeks. Phone auto-boots whenever power is applied (either by their keyboard case or via USB-C), then the battery dies very quickly, and you need a minimum charge to boot the phone, so that means you have to swap an SD card in there with JumpDrive just to charge the darn thing. There are some mitigating factors (larger battery, Tow-Boot + loading OS from SD card…

Wow, PinePhone is mess. So much for a consumer device... Do they even use their own product?

Re: Keep Android Open

#608

Post by ryoshoe »

hueho wrote: post #589
viktorcode wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean Firefox that refuses to support web standards for encoded video streams for ideological reasons?

Wasn't aware of that, can you send a link explaining?

For a while Netflix didn't support 1080p on browsers other than Edge on Windows or Safari on Mac. This has changed somewhat but they still reserve their resolution content for their "blessed" OS/browser combinations

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/30081

Re: Keep Android Open

#609

Post by jama211 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #435
dangus wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo, this right here. Linux desktop wasn’t a daily driver until one day it was. Although the only problem with this strategy is that Linux got that way because of a lot of private companies that actually wanted that. Valve didn’t want to be locked in with Microsoft. Many of Microsoft’s direct competitors also don’t want to be locked in. IBM famously switched to Mac, Google has been using Mac and Linux workstations…

It's a transient state. Food for thought: how much of Linux being a daily driver depends on you having a modern Android or iOS smartphone ? If you need a locked down phone that passes remote attestation to authenticate yourself to a remote service, then whatever you use to access the service UI doesn't really matter: the only device that's necessary to have to use the service is the one you don't fully control, and w…

Personally I wouldn’t want to have an account with any bank that allowed permanently open api’s - an attacker gets one auth and then can see my balance forever? No thanks.

Re: Keep Android Open

#610

Post by kube-system »

jayd16 wrote: post #599
kube-system wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netflix? Telegram's push 2FA? Any mobile wallet application? The vast majority of dating apps? Any of the app-only social networks? Basically all keyless entry applications?

All functionality found on the web.

Have you tried?

* Netflix does not load in a mobile browser, it directs you to download their app.

* web.telegram.org sends a 2FA push notification to their app

* Apple wallet/ Android wallet do not have web apps

* Popular dating apps, e.g. Hinge do not have web apps

* Some social network apps, e.g. BeReal do not have web apps. Many others have reduced features.

* I have never seen a keyless entry app that supports the web, at least not from a mainstream manufacturer.

Can you name a single browser app that can do NFC payments in the US?

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