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Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

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Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#121

Post by decimalenough »

phplovesong wrote: post #98
pavlov wrote: post #21

Nokia today is the combination of the network businesses of Nokia, Siemens, Alcatel and Lucent. They have substantial operations in North America. T-Mobile uses primarily their hardware. Nokia still operates Bell Labs which came originally from AT&T via Lucent. As the other global options for network hardware are Ericsson, Samsung and Huawei, Nokia is the closest to a “Made in USA” solution. Its HQ is in Finland but…

What do you imply with "atleast its a nato country"? Its not like finland have ever been anti-west, if this was your point. Nato alone does not imply pro-west (the US/trump leadership being the prime example)

During the Cold War, Finland was officially neutral, but for pragmatic reasons leaned heavily towards the Soviets in foreign policy. There's even a word for this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandization

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#122

Post by cluckindan »

chemotaxis wrote: post #109
kumarvvr wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it seems now, they are into producing silicon that does massive parallel calculations, and variants on it thereof. To me, that seems to be a requirement for the computing industry for a long time. And, they seemed to have amassed enough capital to comfortably pivot to the next great thing that requires similar calculations. I think this is their super power. The next logical step would be to get into CPUs, to beco…

> To me, that seems to be a requirement for the computing industry for a long time. Sure, but they have a market cap of 5 trillion. It's about 10x that of AMD, which also sells similar silicon (and isn't in any distress). It's more than Apple, Google, and Microsoft - and these companies historically found ways to make more money than the vendors they buy chips from. The problem isn't that Nvidia doesn't have good fun…

Stock values go up when people buying stocks expect them to go up.

Stock values go down when people holding stocks expect them to go down.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#123

Post by toasted-subs »

nrmitchi wrote: post #75

Nvidia seems to be operating more like a sovereign wealth fund than a traditional business. They have a very-in-demand product, that is not likely to last forever, and is getting their fingers in as many pies as possible with the money and influence while they have it.

When an organization reaches a certain level of wealth they become what amounts to as lawyers. Placing money in areas that demonstrate their understanding of the situation even if it may result in potential losses strengthens their brand and reputation.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#124

Post by adastra22 »

chii wrote: post #115
adastra22 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The total aggregate loss of value from top to bottom of the dotcom crash was about $5 trillion. That’s the current market cap of NVIDIA alone, to say nothing of other AI companies. So yeah, it has.

that number back in 2000 is about $9.7 trillion adjusted for inflation. You can't merely just compare the numbers at that time with a number today. It's meaningless. You have to compare forward earnings to share-price ratios.

I think you missed that I'm comparing a single company to the entire market crash in 2000.

What about OpenAI, Anthropic, xAI and the other foundation labs that have collectively raised trillions?

What Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and Meta, which would likely survive but maybe lose up to a trillion each in valuation?

What about the very long tail of venture-backed AI companies that will go bust? You might complain that the dotcom number was just public companies, but back in 2000 everything was a public company. A company with thousands of high-earning employees going bust matters to the greater economy whether or not it is Nasdaq listed or not.

If a single company represents the entire dollar amount of the dotcom bust, or half when inflation-adjusted, and that valuation is entirely predicated on that growth continuing at historically unprecedented rates.. yeah we're in a bubble, and the damage when it bursts is going to be big.

That was the point I was making, and I fail to see how forward earnings to share-price ratios has any relevance here. The whole point of a bubble popping is that the market suddenly finds out those forward revenues were a mirage, a house of cards, and are very much made up.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#125

Post by chii »

adastra22 wrote: post #124
chii wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that number back in 2000 is about $9.7 trillion adjusted for inflation. You can't merely just compare the numbers at that time with a number today. It's meaningless. You have to compare forward earnings to share-price ratios.

I think you missed that I'm comparing a single company to the entire market crash in 2000. What about OpenAI, Anthropic, xAI and the other foundation labs that have collectively raised trillions? What Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and Meta, which would likely survive but maybe lose up to a trillion each in valuation? What about the very long tail of venture-backed AI companies that will go bust? You might complain that…

> fail to see how forward earnings to share-price ratios has any relevance here.

the relevance is that these earnings expectations are lower than when the dotcom bubble happened.

The fact that a single company can have a market cap today that is greater than the losses from the dotcom bust is irrelevant. We have more wealth today than back in 2000, and these market caps reflect that.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#126

Post by WastedCucumber »

chii wrote: post #125
adastra22 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed that I'm comparing a single company to the entire market crash in 2000. What about OpenAI, Anthropic, xAI and the other foundation labs that have collectively raised trillions? What Microsoft, Amazon, Google, and Meta, which would likely survive but maybe lose up to a trillion each in valuation? What about the very long tail of venture-backed AI companies that will go bust? You might complain that…

> fail to see how forward earnings to share-price ratios has any relevance here. the relevance is that these earnings expectations are lower than when the dotcom bubble happened. The fact that a single company can have a market cap today that is greater than the losses from the dotcom bust is irrelevant. We have more wealth today than back in 2000, and these market caps reflect that.

>the relevance is that these earnings expectations are lower than when the dotcom bubble happened.

[citation needed]

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#127

Post by gethly »

nrmitchi wrote: post #75

Nvidia seems to be operating more like a sovereign wealth fund than a traditional business. They have a very-in-demand product, that is not likely to last forever, and is getting their fingers in as many pies as possible with the money and influence while they have it.

They know their time is running out. CEO has been selling shares like they are going out of business the next monday, but nobody talks about it because market could wake up from the dream and crash the entire market as the AI bubble is the only thing holding up the entire USA economy(yes, not just the markets) right now.

https://fintel.io/n/huang-jen-hsun

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#128

Post by flakeoil »

hshdhdhehd wrote: post #110
bazmattaz wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean their market cap? Sure but that doesn’t equal their profits or cash reserves which are considerably less so NVIDIA couldn’t buy the 230 companies even if I wanted to

They could buy with stock. They can do this limitless times each time an effective merger. The SP500 could merge into one company, regulation permitting.

They can not, as Nvidia owns very little of its own stock.

It's the owners of the Nvidia stock who potentially could trade their Nvidia stocks for the other 230 companies stocks. But then they have no Nvidia stocks anymore, on the other hand.

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#129

Post by [deleted] »

phplovesong wrote: post #98
pavlov wrote: post #21

Nokia today is the combination of the network businesses of Nokia, Siemens, Alcatel and Lucent. They have substantial operations in North America. T-Mobile uses primarily their hardware. Nokia still operates Bell Labs which came originally from AT&T via Lucent. As the other global options for network hardware are Ericsson, Samsung and Huawei, Nokia is the closest to a “Made in USA” solution. Its HQ is in Finland but…

What do you imply with "atleast its a nato country"? Its not like finland have ever been anti-west, if this was your point. Nato alone does not imply pro-west (the US/trump leadership being the prime example)

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia takes $1B stake in Nokia

#130

Post by chii »

WastedCucumber wrote: post #126
chii wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fail to see how forward earnings to share-price ratios has any relevance here. the relevance is that these earnings expectations are lower than when the dotcom bubble happened. The fact that a single company can have a market cap today that is greater than the losses from the dotcom bust is irrelevant. We have more wealth today than back in 2000, and these market caps reflect that.

>the relevance is that these earnings expectations are lower than when the dotcom bubble happened. [citation needed]

cant find the forward earnings chart, but PE is close proximation

https://www.macrotrends.net/2577/sp-500-pe-ratio-price-to-ea...

The dotcom bubble peaked at around 46, while we are currently at 30. Will it grow? Who knows. But the bubble certainly isn't as big as claimed by the grandparent comment.

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