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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#741

Post by IshKebab »

th wrote: post #341

It seems like a number of the "DEI is anti-merit discrimination" messages in this thread are overlooking how DEI work usually works. A relevant tweet from 2016 ( https://x.com/jessicamckellar/status/737299461563502595 ): > Hello from your @PyCon Diversity Chair. % PyCon talks by women: (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 Increased diversity in communities usually comes from ac…

That stat is basically meaningless on its own. It could mean anything from they've done an amazing job on engaging women, to they've bodged the numbers by unfairly discriminating against men, or anything in between.

Annoyingly they actually do have the data to answer which it is, because Pycon's review process has a first stage which is blind, and a second stage which isn't. So if they published how many talks get rejected at each stage, by year and vendor, then we could draw actual conclusions.

I couldn't find where they have published those numbers though so we can't draw any conclusions here.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#742

Post by tstrimple »

acdha wrote: post #499
klipt wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you include biological and medical sciences in STEM, STEM graduates have been majority female for decades. Where is the DEI for men in the female dominated STEM subjects?

Where is your data showing those programs don’t exist? For example, conservatives like to talk about the plight of male nurses but even a cursory search shows that there are exactly the kind of programs you’d expect to find.

These people are very disconnected from reality. They make wild claims like groups for men are illegal and you’d never see a group dedicated to helping men in the nursing field. The feminists would destroy it! And yet…

https://www.aamn.org/

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#744

Post by chownie »

lan321 wrote: post #739
chownie wrote: post #724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it become ok if we redefine wronging you so it's no longer a crime? This is what the people looking for reparations are arguing, no wrongs were ever righted because the responsible at no point considered it their duty to do so. This means they have been generationally disadvantaged compared to you. It means they have had worse social mobility. By the time Obama rolled around there had only been four black US sen…

> Does it become ok if we redefine wronging you so it's no longer a crime? In a way, yes. Of course, it's different nowadays in that if I don't like how country X is treating me I just move to country Y so I won't touch that too much. If we make it equal to where I get sold (how did I become property? Debt? War? Kidnapping? The country just decided to cover some debts?) to go plow fields in bumfuck nowhere, I likely…

> And again, the people who'll be punished by a retroactive application of a law will punish mostly people who had nothing to do with it.

It's better to feel punished now when your illfound gains are equalised to the people who lost out for you to have them, than to continue punishing the people who lost out forever because you don't have the humility to say "yeah my ancesters were probably wrong about this"

> No clue if that's true, apparently two high schools in Cleveland got merged in 2017 due to segregation. Anyway..

"No clue" might be the best I'll get, if you want to look it up and learn it's Duval County, Florida which integrated in 1999.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#745

Post by throw10287 »

throwaway091025 wrote: post #737
th wrote: post #341

It seems like a number of the "DEI is anti-merit discrimination" messages in this thread are overlooking how DEI work usually works. A relevant tweet from 2016 ( https://x.com/jessicamckellar/status/737299461563502595 ): > Hello from your @PyCon Diversity Chair. % PyCon talks by women: (2011: 1%), (2012: 7%), (2013: 15%), (2014/15: 33%), (2016: 40%). #pycon2016 Increased diversity in communities usually comes from ac…

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#746

Post by 3oil3 »

gcanyon wrote: post #706
3oil3 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they come to that conclusion with that segregation thing? Besides that, all nonsense. We need the best for the job, the best we can have. Just the best, with no regards to anything else but the abilities to fulfil the job and all around it. Instead of non-sense of choosing someone based on racial, etnic, religous, etc... it goes both way. Instead of that, put more teachers in schools, provide free books/unifo…

> We need the best for the job I'm curious why you say that, since we've arguably been managing without "the best for the job" for centuries, anytime the best was a woman or a minority.

Because we must do better than our ancestors, we have no escuses, whereas e.g. 1880 gobal ileteracy rate > 80%. More comfortable schools with less pupils per 1 teacher we need, fix the issue, not give painkillers.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#747

Post by [deleted] »

TimorousBestie wrote: post #569
KPGv2 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in other words, it went on for a few centuries like I said.

Discrimination didn’t magically end with the Civil Rights Act, either. American universities are still mostly good ol’ boy networks in all the relevant ways.

[deleted]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#748

Post by 3oil3 »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #647
3oil3 wrote: post #627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they come to that conclusion with that segregation thing? Besides that, all nonsense. We need the best for the job, the best we can have. Just the best, with no regards to anything else but the abilities to fulfil the job and all around it. Instead of non-sense of choosing someone based on racial, etnic, religous, etc... it goes both way. Instead of that, put more teachers in schools, provide free books/unifo…

We think we want the best, and then at hiring time we look for "culture fit", or hire people we already know, or our relatives instead. Then we wonder why everybody is just like us.

Yep, you'r 100% right, it reminds me I once read that of all given jobs offers, 50% would be taken by someone who got introduced internally. Out of personal exeperience as employer, that so was decided by me because it was filling the need instantly. And out of those personal experiences, bad employees brought bad recruits, good employees brought good recruits. Unknown recruits? half good, half bad. Ironically chiraldic.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#749

Post by heroprotagonist »

WesolyKubeczek wrote: post #675
cycomanic wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how everyone brings up all these anecdotes, but then the reality is that there are plenty of studies that show that if your name is associated with being black you have much lower chances to be invited to an interview. So seems like all this talk by HR people didn't really change any hiring practices. It's also funny how everyone is outraged by the DEI programs, instead of the real discrimination that is h…

Hint: if everyone has such anecdotes, they are no longer anecdotes.

No, they're still anecdotes.

   anecdote   /'ænɪk,doʊt/
   noun
   short account of an incident (especially a biographical one)

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#750

Post by dragonwriter »

MoltenMan wrote: post #467
dragonwriter wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly? I can see how it might seem weird to an alien who knew what men and women were, but had no context for the existing state and history of society. I can't see how it would seem weird to anyone else, however.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous comment about what exactly rubs me the wrong way, so here's an analogy: imagine you went to school and the the teacher lined everyone up by gender and handed out a cookie to everyone. And then she handed out two extra cookies to all of the girls! You would be annoyed! Does it matter that back at home guys normally get 4 extra cookies every day? No, because as a guy, you don't see o…

I noticed that you have worked very hard in your strained analogy to setup conditions which validate my original statement:

“I can see how it might seem weird to an alien who knew what men and women were, but had no context for the existing state and history of society.”

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