Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

pyfound.blogspot.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

461–470 of 886 posts

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#461

Post by dragonwriter »

MoltenMan wrote: post #459
II2II wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that they said: > We went to community centers, after school programs, and worked with other similar orgs like "girls who code." This sounds like a fairly broad based outreach program. The inclusion of an organization that supports girls is just one of the avenues they used. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I feel like founding an organization called Men In Science & Engineering Research, simply becau…

I don't think there are really enough details on the parent comment to judge it either way, but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly? Whether or not white men have hidden advantages over non white men (and I'm not saying that they don't! Simply that they are not clearly visible), it should be very clear that there are large non hidden…

> but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly?

I can see how it might seem weird to an alien who knew what men and women were, but had no context for the existing state and history of society.

I can't see how it would seem weird to anyone else, however.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#462

Post by cindyllm »

MoltenMan wrote: post #459
II2II wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that they said: > We went to community centers, after school programs, and worked with other similar orgs like "girls who code." This sounds like a fairly broad based outreach program. The inclusion of an organization that supports girls is just one of the avenues they used. There is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I feel like founding an organization called Men In Science & Engineering Research, simply becau…

I don't think there are really enough details on the parent comment to judge it either way, but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly? Whether or not white men have hidden advantages over non white men (and I'm not saying that they don't! Simply that they are not clearly visible), it should be very clear that there are large non hidden…

[dead]

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#463

Post by sophrosyne42 »

adriand wrote: post #445
anal_reactor wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> DEI is at its heart a type of discrimination. You might argue that the end justifies the means, but if intermediate step is that a person gets different treatment depending on their sex or skin colour, then it is discrimination. The purpose of DEI is to rectify the discrimination that is already present. It isn't as though we live in a discrimination-free world and then DEI arrived on the scene and suddenly started…

The purpose of DEI is to enforce what is idealized as the equal outcome, assuming that all observed differences are the result of discrimination. The problem is that it has not been shown that all observed differences are the result of discrimination as opposed to preference, ability, or other uncontrollable factors not related to discrimination but which are reasonable bases for the difference. There are many cases where differences have been shown exist for reasons other than discrimination. The blanket approach of DEI essentially is a move back to medieval policies which afford certain groups special legal privileges.

We should be removing special privileges that can cause discrimination and not creating more, because a new special privilege can never reverse but will only compound the negative social effects of them.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#464

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

dragonwriter wrote: post #365
lenerdenator wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roughly half of the country, give or take.

Roughly 40% supports Trump, but they are often quite loud about putting other things above the rule of law. Not sure why you think roughly 50% give him the benefit of the doubt on dedication to the rule of law.

From Democratic analyst David Shor back in March ( https://archive.is/kbwom ) : "The reality is if all registered voters had turned out, then Donald Trump would’ve won the popular vote by 5 points [instead of 1.7 points]." So, not that it brings me any joy to say it but it would seem more like 55%?

If anyone has any polling data to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#465

Post by mrbombastic »

endomorphosis wrote: post #439
endomorphosis wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

STUDENTS FOR FAIR ADMISSIONS, INC. v. PRESIDENT AND FELLOWS OF HARVARD COLLEGE 2023 Held: Harvard’s and UNC’s admissions programs violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Pp. 6–40. "(b) Proposed by Congress and ratified by the States in the wake of the Civil War, the Fourteenth Amendment provides that no State shall “deny to any person . . . the equal protection of the laws.” Proponents of the…

In regards to race conscious bias in the admissions process this is very different then an outreach program

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#466

Post by __loam »

gatvol wrote: post #451
__loam wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What is your evidence for this: "... because of structural problems that push them out, be that systemic misogyny in our educational systems ..." , "the toxicity present in the industry that pushes them out ... "? What alternative reasons have you explored?

I mean there's reams of women in tech or academia who talk about this shit. "I left my PhD program because I was constantly belittled and harassed by my advisor and labmates" "I left my position for a different company because I kept getting passed over for promotion after I had kids" "I switched majors from CS in college because most of my classmates were men who made me uncomfortable" "I was bullied in high school by boys because they thought I didn't get accepted into school based on merit". These are all stories I've heard and there are many of them. Go ask some women in your workplace and I'd bet money they've heard stories like this from other women they know or have experienced it themselves. I'm a man and I'm tired of hearing the contrarian denials regarding these problems from my peers in the industry. Maybe every woman I know in the industry experiencing sexism at some point in their education or career is too anecdotal for you I guess.

I'm sure there's studies in labor and education stats to show some quantitative evidence of this stuff but I'm not going to waste my time proving the obvious to you.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#467

Post by MoltenMan »

dragonwriter wrote: post #461
MoltenMan wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are really enough details on the parent comment to judge it either way, but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly? Whether or not white men have hidden advantages over non white men (and I'm not saying that they don't! Simply that they are not clearly visible), it should be very clear that there are large non hidden…

> but can't you at least see how weird it is that 'Women in STEM' is very accepted but a 'Men in STEM' program would never fly? I can see how it might seem weird to an alien who knew what men and women were, but had no context for the existing state and history of society. I can't see how it would seem weird to anyone else, however.

Maybe I wasn't clear in my previous comment about what exactly rubs me the wrong way, so here's an analogy: imagine you went to school and the the teacher lined everyone up by gender and handed out a cookie to everyone. And then she handed out two extra cookies to all of the girls! You would be annoyed! Does it matter that back at home guys normally get 4 extra cookies every day? No, because as a guy, you don't see or know this! (In this world brothers don't have sisters and vice versa). And even if you do technically know this because you've heard about it, you don't really viscerally understand it because it's not really your lived in experience.

So what is the solution? I can't say I know. But I do know that these things very much breed discontentment and it is at the very least important to recognize why.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#468

Post by mrbombastic »

endomorphosis wrote: post #441
endomorphosis wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

AMERICAN ALLIANCE FOR EQUAL RIGHTS, versus FEARLESS FUND MANAGEMENT, LLC, 2023 To be sure, the line between “pure speech” that arguably entails discriminatory sentiments, see 303 Creative, 600 U.S. at 587, and the very act of discrimination itself may at times be hard to draw. And to be sure, Fearless characterizes its contest as reflecting its “commitment” to the “[b]lack women-owned” business community. The fact re…

The organization refused applications from anyone who wasn’t a black female, again different then an outreach group. I am sure if a male applied to “Girls who code” was denied and was able to establish this did harm to him he could have a case. As far as I know that has not happened so the group and others like it are perfectly legal.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#470

Post by tootie »

belorn wrote: post #397
jkelleyrtp wrote: post #320

In high school, I ran a robotics team that did lots of STEM outreach. We went to community centers, after school programs, and worked with other similar orgs like "girls who code." I think we played an important role in the community. In our mission we stated we wanted to help bring "equity to STEM education." In 2025, according to the current admin's stance on "DEI," my robotics team would not be able to receive gra…

Around 2019, Guido official stated that he would not longer mentor any white male, and that there was enough white males around that any white male who wanted to learn developing python would have to do it on their own. The community in general seemed to follow the same policy back then, but now seem to have relaxed a bit. Reducing complex individuals into two bits of information, skin and gender, will never be a sta…

[flagged]
Post reply on HN