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PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

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Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#141
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I am going to add my own stronger language than yours: if you don’t feel positively about diversity, equity, and inclusion, then you are sending a message that you instead support homogeneity, inequity, and exclusion. This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of…

The issue is more complex.

If groups of people are disadvantaged from birth and then throughout their life, it's unlikely they will be the best at anything.

But you could imagine that the person with the best potential was part of that group.

In effect, an unjust society that doesn't allow fair equal opportunities from birth and throughout life is sub-optimal at yielding the best candidates for any given role, as it artificially restricts the pool.

The other complexity is the inherent bias in the assessment process. How people assess who is best qualified has tons of bias. Again, that means the selection is sub-optimal at finding the actually best candidate.

It becomes hard to talk of meritocracy when most people's performance derive from circumstances like birth, wealth, connections. Someone else might have performed even better had they'd been given the same circumstances.

Finally, you have the problem of not maximizing everyone's potential even if they're not going to be the best.

Obviously we can't have the best at every job. Only one company will have the real best at any given role. Most jobs will be done by the average performer. That's a mathematical truth.

Thus raising the average has tremendous lift in raising quality of work accross the board.

In order to raise the average, you have to give everyone what they need to max out their potential, even if one's potential is lower. That might mean some need more than others, disabled people are a good example, they'll need lots of compensating equipment and what not to maximize their potential and raise their overall effect to society.

To me, those are the basis problems that people were trying to solve. Obviously, a lot of the solutions to these became performative dances, but I think the problem statement aligns well with what you have too.

The idea being that the person right now that we seem best qualified is truly the best isn't true unless we achieve a better system at maximizing people's potential.

Thus true meritocracy demands accepting diversity, equity, inclusion and fair equal opportunities.

Without it, you're only circumstancially demonstrably the best, and you never know if you truly are the better one.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#142
post #126
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> DEI is an immoral, hate based and anti-truth ideology. Much of the DEI work stems from people looking around a decade or so ago at tech conferences, and noticing that they were almost entirely comprised of men. There's way too much to address in a single comment, so I'll share one specific thing the Python community has done over the past ten+ years that's made a world of difference: The talk proposal process has b…

PSF made their own choice based on their own politics and optics. Note that requirements had nothing against diversity or fairness. It was fairly specific: "discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws."

DEI was weaponized in the USA, where in quite a few instances, people couldn't get promoted or hired because of their race (typically white or asian). It was about preferential treatment, where you would get hired because of your race, and not merit.

I am all for diversity, I am all for fairness, and I don't think we should exclude people based on the color of their skin or their socioeconomic status. Yet, that is exactly what DEI did, and I have seen it firsthand many, many times.

PSF is just being stupid (or pragmatic) about it.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#143
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discriminatory equity ideology Isn't that when you let your mates buy into your corrupt private investment vehicles for cheap?

I have no idea what point you think you're making, but this happens all the time. Do you really think you should be obligated to let strangers buy into your private business?

And do really think they think that?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those are marked as "PURCHASE ORDER", I don't think the PSF applies for those. I don't think they are what one would consider funding

Grants are at the bottom.

The grants to the 'University of Georgia Research Foundation'?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#145
post #28
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems very un-American. The government dictating how you run your business ? > “do not, and will not during the term of this financial assistance award, operate any programs that advance or promote DEI, or discriminatory equity ideology in violation of Federal anti-discrimination laws.” Is that even legal to add such an arbitrary and opinionated reason to a government grant? I applaud them for taking a stand, it…

Anti-DEI forces, once in power, turn out not to favor putative “diversity of opinion” after all.

No one takes them to jail; companies and organizations can run however they want, unless they break laws. It doesn't mean that the government that runs and wins on an anti-DEI agenda should give them money.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#147
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I am going to add my own stronger language than yours: if you don’t feel positively about diversity, equity, and inclusion, then you are sending a message that you instead support homogeneity, inequity, and exclusion. This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of…

Would you still be the best person for your current role if you'd been excluded from your education and training/previous roles based on your ethnicity/sex?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#148
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am going to add my own stronger language than yours: if you don’t feel positively about diversity, equity, and inclusion, then you are sending a message that you instead support homogeneity, inequity, and exclusion. This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of…

> This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. This is the paradox of tolerance is invoked. The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now. If you are “with that” then yes, you are against us. This is not to say that I am intending to be hostile and unwelcoming to those who have been deceived by this r…

> The people in the present administration have been blowing white supremacist and pro-violence dog whistles for over a decade now.

I think this is in itself a huge problem. You've been told this, repeatedly, for 10 years, which explains why so much of the political violence (and celebration thereof) is on the left in the US. Why do you still believe dogwhistles to be a bigger problem than actual violence?

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#149
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I am going to going even further than you and suggest if you are an American do not support America First, that means you instead support America Last. If you believe that, you should think about what other countries and groups support those kinds of things, and what kind of company supporting terrorist groups puts you in. No, there isn't a legitimate reason not to want America First. Yes, it's important we call out…

America first I assume now means “South America First” in regard to financially bailing out Argentina in exchange for political favors.

Re: PSF has withdrawn $1.5M proposal to US Government grant program

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am going to add my own stronger language than yours: if you don’t feel positively about diversity, equity, and inclusion, then you are sending a message that you instead support homogeneity, inequity, and exclusion. This "if you're not for us you're against us" is a very broken way of thinking. It excludes the many, many more people just don't care about diversity and want the best people in a role regardless of…

Would you still be the best person for your current role if you'd been excluded from your education and training/previous roles based on your ethnicity/sex?

Definitely not, if I'd not had the relevant education, training, or experience. But we have a giant, expensive state and corporate apparatus to correct this, but it's not based on this actual experience. It's based on demographics. Making it incredibly inaccurate.
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