Everybody seems to agree that installation costs way too much. There's a few parts to this. Everything has to be carefully sized - power, pipe sizes, unit locations. You need to put a house's thermal profile (how much heat loss, how much air leak, how much thermal mass) along with the regional thermal profile into an engineering calculation which computes what you need. Thermographic inspections are a thing.[1] Usual…
Harnessing America's heat pump moment
201–210 of 571 posts
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#202In fact, efficiency was the main reason I wanted a mini split in the first place. It just bugged me to _not_ pump the heat entirely outside the structure. And I paid a bit more for that versus just using a window unit or “portable” AC. All we’re talking here is the location of the condenser coil: inside versus outside. It just makes sense to put it outside, with just a small penetration in the building.
Well, during electrical inspection apparently I paid too much. After paying more than a certain threshold for converting an unconditioned space to a conditioned space, I now need to insulate the accessory structure to a certain degree in order to pass code.
The kicker is, the only way I can insulate the space to meet code is to insulate with polyiso (aka styrofoam) because the structure is so small. So, I guess in an effort to be “green” according to local government, I need to rip out the mineral wool insulation, dump it and replace it with styrofoam. Or put the mini split in the dump and buy a cheaper less efficient unit like a window unit.
I’d save approximately $0.30 a year on energy costs to insulate to code versus what I have now with the mini split.
This whole industry is stupid and that’s because it’s regulated by idiots.
Name and shame: this is Chapel Hill, NC.
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#203Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
ok, Reddit is not representative. what qualifies you to speak for what customers will accept?
I spent 5 years installing and maintaining A/C equipment for residences and a few small commercial locations.
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
Below freezing is a concern that everyone has in Northern Europe, particularly Scandinavia which has very high per-capita adoption. The units might be harder to find in the US, but they definitely exist. If you can afford it, and have the land access, you could install a ground-source pump which should benefit from more stable temperatures. As with all heating/cooling, these systems work best if your house is well in…
Northern Europe tends to have a mild climate in the places where people live. The Northern US is significantly south, yet gets significantly colder winters. There are places in Europe that get worse than the Northern US - but they are places where few people live and so not normally what you are talking about when talking about Europe. Though good heat pumps are hard to find in the northern US. Most installers only k…
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#206Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is outdatated nonsense, I had my system installed 10 years ago and it works down to -15F... even the cheap $1k systems on Amazon work below freezing now Like any piece of equipment, just check the specs before you buy...
It's semi-true even with modern systems and shouldn't be outright dismissed as "nonsense". A normal person is scared of the prospect of losing heating when it's most needed . -15F accounts for many places in the US, but many others, not so much. Even New Jersey, which we don't think of as the frigid North, can theoretically drop below that number, and nobody wants "almost always" when it comes to life-giving heat in…
People being "scared" is how north america ended up with vehicles the size of tanks. The vast majority of cold climate heat pumps work down to - 20 C in most cases and down to -30 with better models.
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#207Maybe I have scar tissue from COVID prices but $20k to install a ductless heat pump vs. a $200 to throw a window A/C in or $700 for a portable heat pump. While I get that these heat pumps are better for the environment and much more efficient it's a last mile issue. The installers charge an arm and a leg and I'm not hurting enough to self install. I'm hoping the window heat pumps that just run off mains will be avail…
This is talking about cold-climate heat pumps. A $200 window AC isn't going to heat your house when it's way below freezing outside. $20k USD is insane though. I live in Ontario and we paid $12k CAD (pre-government subsidy) for a modern heat pump with a backup high efficiency furnace for when temperatures dip down to -40 or lower.
Honestly, just piling more insulation in the attic and doing an energy audit will probably put the ROI out another 10+ years...
I'm hoping the newer window units that are being rolled out to the NYC market will be good enough to put downward pressure on the outrageous prices in the installation market. Or maybe I'll just dedicate a weekend to DIYing :P
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#208Everybody seems to agree that installation costs way too much. There's a few parts to this. Everything has to be carefully sized - power, pipe sizes, unit locations. You need to put a house's thermal profile (how much heat loss, how much air leak, how much thermal mass) along with the regional thermal profile into an engineering calculation which computes what you need. Thermographic inspections are a thing.[1] Usual…
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ha. It's not straight labor. So much other overhead to consider - workman's comp insurance, back office staff, technician utilization, vehicle repair and maintenance, etc... There are lots of other costs that get baked in when you're looking at a licensed company compared to a guy in a truck
Okay but US$5k for half a day of work? It would have been faster if the guy had had his own ladder instead of us moving my desk so he could stand on it to work. (He's bought one since then.)
Re: Harnessing America's heat pump moment
#210Maybe I have scar tissue from COVID prices but $20k to install a ductless heat pump vs. a $200 to throw a window A/C in or $700 for a portable heat pump. While I get that these heat pumps are better for the environment and much more efficient it's a last mile issue. The installers charge an arm and a leg and I'm not hurting enough to self install. I'm hoping the window heat pumps that just run off mains will be avail…
It's the opposite for me, much bigger ROI on the heatpump than solar. Rural property, 10 years old, ~3,500 sq ft + basement, in Canada where summer can be above 30C (86F) and winter below -30C (-20F). Electricity costs (Canadian) 7.6 ¢/kWh off-peak and 15.8 ¢/kWh on-peak here. I spent C$40K (about US$30k) on a ground source aka 'geothermal' heat pump to replace furnace powered by propane tank. I kept propane for on-d…