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NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

cnn.com

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Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#791

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

mmooss wrote: post #771
electriclove wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be great for there to be more competition. But the reality is that SpaceX is in a different league - why focus on knocking them when there isn’t another alternative ??

> the reality is that SpaceX is in a different league They aren't delivering, so maybe not. People on HN state the SpaceX talking points like they are reality. It's an Internet mob; there is no room for any serious examination of the issue.

Even if the bet on Starship fails to pay off, the existing Falcon 9 program is both (1) the dominant launch vehicle in terms of sheer quantity, reliability, and cost-effectiveness of missions and (2) the only system with a reusable first stage. Dragon routinely ferries humans to and from the ISS (and other trajectories) and no one blinks an eye.

How do you square that with "not delivering"? I don't doubt that China could surpass them in the next 5 years, but nobody else is realistically close to doing so.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#792

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

caycep wrote: post #391
loourr wrote: post #20

Artemis is a joke. You can tell this is politically motivated by their stance on SLS. If they were serious they would give Spacex the SLS contract for being years and years behind schedule.

the whole space industry is a joke; if it were healthy, there would be an ecosystem of multiple launch providers vs one finicky government-funded-Elon-company

> the whole space industry is a joke; if it were healthy, there would be an ecosystem of multiple launch providers vs one finicky government-funded-Elon-company

ULA has been operating for many, many years (Atlas/Delta, now Vulcan Centaur), RocketLab has been putting up small payloads for the last few (with Electron, someday Neutron perhaps), and BO seems close to having New Glenn flying real missions this season. But yes, one hopes that the others can become competitive on price eventually.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#793

Post by BHSPitMonkey »

dmvdoug wrote: post #519
dotnet00 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The industry is going through growing pains, New Glenn is almost ready for payloads, Neutron is a year or two away from flying, and other small launch companies are in the process of pivoting to either medium launch or space services. I'm not seeing what makes SpaceX government funded beyond just that it provides services to the government? The same as any other launch provider would be doing? At this point the vast…

> * I'm not seeing what makes SpaceX government funded beyond just that it provides services to the government* Take away all of SpaceX‘s government contracts. You imagine SpaceX would still be in business? As you said, every launch provider is basically dependent on government contracts to stay in business because the government is the only entity that has a legitimate need for launch capability such that it’s willi…

Do you disagree that cultivating the launch provider industry in this way has strategic value?

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#794

Post by inglor_cz »

allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

"We’ve beaten".

No, it wasn't "you". It was a generation that is mostly dead. As of now, Boeing cannot deliver a reasonably safe spaceship for mere travel to Low Earth Orbit.

Things change and without SpaceX, the US space industry would be slightly better than Roskosmos.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#795

Post by inglor_cz »

robocat wrote: post #710
kurisufag wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the reds did space much, much worse. first satellite? all sputnik could do was beep, and it ran out of batteries in three weeks. first animal? laika died. first station? there were two attempts to crew it -- the first failed to dock and everyone on the second mission fucking died. the soyuz 11 crew remain the only human deaths in space. first *naut? yuri gagarin didn't even have manual controls. the n1 was catastroph…

Failing fast is easier when lives are valued cheaply. “If it’s not failing, you’re not pushing hard enough.” You are selecting goalposts that suit your team, and being disrespectful of the USSR (presumably because you don't want to acknowledge their successes).

Not the OP, but even though I respect the Soviet space results, the USSR itself was an abomination, a prison of nations, a rehashed Russian empire rebased on a totalitarian creed.

The eastern half of Europe took the first opportunity to run away from its grip, including my nation.

Happy (and naive) are the people who never lived under Moscow's rule.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#796

Post by felipeerias »

ambicapter wrote: post #305
oceanplexian wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JFK proposed we go to the Moon in 1962. We did it in 1969, 7 years later.

Crucially, not during his term (or his life, but that's irrelevant).

The moon landing would have probably happened during JFK’s second term, if he hadn’t been assassinated and if the Apollo 1 tragedy hadn’t set the project back significantly.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#797

Post by jasonkester »

greenavocado wrote: post #672
allenrb wrote: post #373

There is just so much wrong with this from start to finish. Here are a few things, by no means inclusive: 1. We’ve already beaten China to the moon by 56 years, 3 months, and some change. And counting. 2. Nothing based around SLS is remotely serious. The cost and timeline of doing anything with it are unreasonable. It is an absolute dead-end. The SpaceX Super Heavy has been more capable arguably as early as the secon…

[flagged]

I get the occasional NASA photo on my instagram feed, and the comments are always filled with this same kind of Perfomative Ignorance.

It must be fun, but it’s a shame to see it trickle in here.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#798

Post by Laremere »

dotnet00 wrote: post #60
loourr wrote: post #20

Artemis is a joke. You can tell this is politically motivated by their stance on SLS. If they were serious they would give Spacex the SLS contract for being years and years behind schedule.

If they were serious, they'd properly look into ending SLS after the ones that are being built are launched, cancel the upgrade, go after the company that spent the entire launch tower budget before even starting construction, open up bids for rockets to fly Orion (probably Vulcan or New Glenn IIRC), and sort out their space suit issues. Maybe also seriously threaten Boeing with cancelations and restrictions for thei…

Payload capacities to trans-lunar injection (source wikipedia):

SLS Block 1: >27,000 kg (59,500 lb)

SLS Block 1B: 42,000 kg (92,500 lb)

SlS Block 2: >46,000 kg (101,400 lb)

Vulcan Centaur: 12,100 kg (26,700 lb)

New Glenn: 7,000 kg (15,000 lb)

Orion crew module by itself weighs 10,400 kg (22,900 lb), the service module is 15,461 kg (34,085 lb).

Orion is a heavy spacecraft. SLS, like or not (I don't), it has a lot of lift. Unless you're sticking an Orion inside of a Starship (lol), Orion basically dies with SLS.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#799

Post by pmontra »

zdragnar wrote: post #497
Waterluvian wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: 1. I think the America of Theseus mindset is a bit troubling. A lot of people like to identify with achievements that they played no role in. Based on zero expertise whatsoever, I have a sense that this is a bit self defeating. To be born a winner, to be taught you’re a winner… how can that be healthy? Today’s America scores zero points for its accomplishments of the past. But I think one way it can be a good thi…

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. The first to get there has already happened. The idea that we need to land on the moon once a generation just to say that we are as good at landing on the moon as our parents is absurd.

It's like the Olympics, you have to win the basketball gold medal every 4 years or accept that somebody else is better than you at that game. Every medal can be the last one forever. Sports are sports, not being good at other matters can have substantial consequences. Maybe landing on the moon is not one of them but the degree of technology and organization that it requires is certainly a proxy of the general standing of a country.

Re: NASA chief suggests SpaceX may be booted from moon mission

#800

Post by anjel »

Yeul wrote: post #624
themgt wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America cannot possibly win the space race again, because it has already been won. This is sort of like saying Leif Erikson and the Icelandic Commonwealth won the "the new world race" in 1000AD. Whatever Columbus et al were up to would surely be of trifling concern to future generations.

It also ignores the fact that empires can decline. (Although I think the moon landing is ridiculous there is no scientific reason for it).

https://www.space.com/astronomy/moon/mining-the-moon-can-you...
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