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Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

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Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#91

Post by nicoburns »

zawaideh wrote: post #17
dlisboa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

Re: Western. A similar thing plays out when the term "international community" is used in news. It refers to the US and its major allies which means US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand more or less.

> A similar thing plays out when the term "international community" is used in news. It refers to the US and its major allies which means US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, Australia and New Zealand more or less.

Wait, really? I thought "international community" meant all countries.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#92

Post by hbarka »

chuckadams wrote: post #44
dlisboa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

I find "western" is often used to disparage "western thought", as in it can't grasp the deep wisdom of those mysterious orientals that transcends normal logic and reason. Declaring such a split is the underpinning of a whole lot of woo-woo beliefs.

Disparage or exalt? It can also be used in an objective sense without conjuring insult.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#93

Post by CaptainOfCoit »

checker659 wrote: post #82

They are working with tiny models. Not sure how well it'd scale to bigger models (if at all).

They're all LLMs, so no, not tiny, but not exactly huge either:

> Our current deployment runs in a cross-region cluster comprising 213 H20 GPUs, serving twenty-eight 1.8–7B models (TP=1) and nineteen 32–72B models (TP=4).

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#94

Post by sspiff »

hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

Their are signs that China is not open sourcing their SOTA models anymore. Both Huawei and Qwen (Qwen-Max, WAN 2.5) and have launched flagship models which are yet to be opensourced.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#95

Post by ambicapter »

wood_spirit wrote: post #88
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. It's worked for a very long time for aircraft. China has been pushing to build its own aircraft for >23 years. It took 14 years for COMAC to get its first regional jet flying commercial flights on a Chinese airline, and 21 years to get a narrow-body plane flying a…

But at the same time they are fielding multiple new stealth aircraft and their jets and missiles outperformed western aircraft in the recent Pakistan India flare-up.

So you'd think they'd be able to build a commercial jet liner, no?

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#96

Post by nextworddev »

nextworddev wrote: post #78
dlisboa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

Name one thing China has invented first in LLMs that the “west” adopted as a standard

Your silence is deafening, qwen bots

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#97

Post by camel_Snake »

sspiff wrote: post #94
hunglee2 wrote: post #2

The US attempt to slow down China's technological development succeeds on the basis of preventing China from directly following the same path, but may backfire in the sense it forces innovation by China in a different direction. The overall outcome for us all may be increase efficiency as a result of this forced innovation, especially if Chinese companies continue to open source their advances, so we may in the end h…

Their are signs that China is not open sourcing their SOTA models anymore. Both Huawei and Qwen (Qwen-Max, WAN 2.5) and have launched flagship models which are yet to be opensourced.

Small counterpoint but there are also 2 new players putting out SOTA open source models (Moonshots Kimi and zhipus GLM) so we're still seeing the same number of models overall, just via newer entrants.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#98

Post by switchbak »

rayiner wrote: post #22
dlisboa wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

History has shown that withholding technology from China does not significantly stop them and they'll achieve it (or better) in a small number of years. In many senses there's hubris in the western* view of China accomplishments: most of what western companies have created has had significant contribution by Chinese scientists or manufacturing, without which those companies would have nothing. If you look at the name…

Nobody thinks the Japanese aren’t “civilized.” “Western” is just a euphemism for “rich and orderly.”

It is an odd category, and Japan is often considered to be "Western" - these days at least. That certainly wasn't the case even a few generations ago.

I think it's ostensibly supposed to be more about shared cultural values, but even that is a pretty weak way to divide countries. Perhaps "an ally of the United States" is a little more accurate?

Any societal dividing line like this is bound to hit on problems once subjected to the real world.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#99

Post by switchbak »

hbarka wrote: post #92
chuckadams wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find "western" is often used to disparage "western thought", as in it can't grasp the deep wisdom of those mysterious orientals that transcends normal logic and reason. Declaring such a split is the underpinning of a whole lot of woo-woo beliefs.

Disparage or exalt? It can also be used in an objective sense without conjuring insult.

It can be both. From different people, and it often is.

Re: Alibaba Cloud says it cut Nvidia AI GPU use by 82% with new pooling system

#100

Post by serf »

dotnet00 wrote: post #60
muddi900 wrote: post #32

[flagged]

This is such a popular coping tactic from Americans when it comes to facing actual competition, especially from China. Everything they do must either be a lie or just stolen American technology, as if there's something inherently special about Americans that no one else has.

It's easy to guess that an opponent that is focusing on information control and theatre above all else is doing so for reasons.

> Everything they do must either be a lie or just stolen American technology

as an aviation enthusiast for 30+ years this claim , while deliberately blunt, is not far from the truth -- the truth being that half of their hardware was stolen Russian design, too.

Let's consider : The KJ-600, the J-31, J-10, H-6, Z-20, J-7, J-15, J-11.

If it isn't a direct shape-to-shape knockoff like the J-31 it's either a licensed reproduction from Russia or something derived from a reverse engineering effort like the Su-33 prototype they got from Ukraine. Similar story with their Ghost Bat knockoffs.

There are very few novel designs. I'm not faulting the methodology -- the shape of the thing w.r.t. aircraft is half (if not more) of the struggle.

It's a tremendous advantage to start from a known good shape and go from there. If I were the boss I would do exactly the same thing when trying to bootstrap an aerospace industry.

>as if there's something inherently special about Americans that no one else has.

the US has proven numerous times that this is exactly the case.

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