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How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

cultofmac.com

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Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#111

Post by microtherion »

Matsta wrote: post #20

Ahh yes, so we are all really going to ditch Facebook and Twitter for Google+ soon? I kinda doubt it "Although Google+ may have as little as 10% of the active users of Facebook, it’s growing faster than Facebook ever did. And more importantly, Google+ has a vastly superior user experience to Facebook and has a much brighter longterm future, in my opinion."

Apart from the merits of Google+ per se, are there any data on how it's doing on mobile? My impression is that on mobile, shorter form media tend to do better, so Twitter's rise seems to be correlated with smartphone adoption, while Facebook is not quite as popular on phones.

From anything I've seen with Google+, its culture tends to be much longer form than Facebook (In fact, I pretty much gave up on reading it because it's such a Pontification Platform that I found it to be too wordy even for the desktop). Are there really people who find Google+ a great experience on Smartphones?

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#112

Post by josephlord »

chmars wrote: post #100
arrrg wrote: post #2

First, to get it out of the way: People are very right in mocking Apple. They deserve every bit of that. What they delivered with their Maps app is embarrassing. I do not want to defend that. The problem, however, is that this article assumes something to be unequivocally true even though we do not know whether it is: That Apple decided to build their own maps in order to hurt Google. It takes two to play. Both Apple…

Apple's Google Maps app on iOS had turn-by-turn navigation, only without voice. I used it a lot and I truly miss it. I am fine with Apple developing their own maps service but they should have given a user choice.

You had to manually advance the instructions and if you went off route you had to go back and generate a new route from current location. These are pretty fatal limitations if you are using it while driving although it worked fine for walking.

As others have said without knowing the Google/Apple maps contract details we don't know if Apple could have given customers the choice.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#113

Post by hahainternet »

SoftwareMaven wrote: post #76
jfoutz wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If he had lived for another five years, apple would have a new product. As it is, we're looking at ipad 8 and iphone 11. There are a ton of smart, talented people working at apple, but no indication of focus or vision. Maybe, after a few years of mourning, apple might be able to do something really new. As it is, all those smart people are going to keep doing what they have been doing. That's ok in most organizations…

Apple is an incredibly secretive company. There were no indications the iPhone and iPad were on their way, either. Apple could have a dozen more products like that behind closed doors and we'd never know (until they start planting vague, conflicting rumors 6 months before release to start the anticipation media storm).

There were in fact lots of iPad rumours and I was mocked at the time for assuming they would introduce a tablet.

Your memory is incorrect.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#114

Post by josephlord »

kamaal wrote: post #95

Apple is no way positioned to harm Google in any way on the longer run. In many ways Apple's products are like what video games, music albums and stereos were in the past. They are products with massive hype, craze and cult following of some kind. Google on the other hand is a massive Innovation factory, churning innovations by the years. No body really is close to them when it comes to search, on line advertising et…

Apple may not be positioned to harm Google massively but I don't see that is really their aim.

Google clearly has done and still does some real useful innovation but I think that you are massively overstating their effectiveness on that front.

What is innovative about Google TV? The first version was a shit concept implemented badly and advertised by lunatics. I understand the second version is better but I still don't think the concept is right (I've not used the second version so it may be quite good now).

Android? I'm not saying that it isn't good or doesn't have some innovations but it isn't in a different class to iOS or even probably WinPhone. Can you explain what is really innovative about it.

Wearable computing - toy so far. Do I think that it will be turned into a mass market product in the next 5 years. My bet is no. Also IF Apple was working on such a thing they wouldn't tell the world until it was consumer ready so there isn't necessarily a lead.

On line advertising, peta byte scale data analytics - these are tools used against me as a customer (or am I the product). They are the reasons that I don't use Gmail or want an Android phone. Do I trust Google more than FB - hell yes! But they know too much already from my search patterns, maps use etc. I don't want to give them any more.

I could go down the rest of your list but it would get tedious.

It also seems to me that cult going gaga these days isn't the Apple one but the Google one. There is far more vitriol, anger and negative comments about Apple products than raving praise for them. Your post is not in that category but it shows what I perceive as an unhealthy level of reverence to Google.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#115

Post by dbaupp »

0xABADC0DA wrote: post #107
ender7 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What worries me is that while Jobs was the one to turn the holy war on, he may have been the only one who could have turned it off again. One of his greatest strengths was his ability to believe something incredibly strongly, but then to change that belief quickly (and, at times, mercurially). Jobs's war on Google would have been hot and nasty, but I think he would have moved on to other things after a while. I worry…

Why do you think this is Apple's fight? The iOS 6 comes out 5 years after the original iPhone. That's a nice round number and it's highly likely that there was a 5 year contract and Google simply refused to license Maps to Apple at any reasonable rate (take for instance people moving to open street maps instead of Google Maps because of the recent rate hikes). Hell they bought a whole company for what $15 billion see…

I don't fully understand the background/history in this specific scenario, but I would think that the major reason for large non-patent-troll companies to buy patent portfolios is to give themselves some protection & insurance against being sued by others, i.e. some ammunition to counter-sue with.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#116

Post by gurkendoktor »

pilif wrote: post #85

To be fair though: we could just as well be seeing the results of a contract expiring which to renew Google might have asked for unreasonable terms. Think of it: the iPhone came out 5 years ago and 5 years is a conceivable contract term, just as it was 5 years for the YouTube app. When the maps app was initially put on the phone, Google maps was more or less free. Nowadays it is very expensive (a bit better now, but…

> Think of it: the iPhone came out 5 years ago and 5 years is a conceivable contract term, just as it was 5 years for the YouTube app.

Would that explain why iOS 5.1.1 was never patched to fix the jailbreak?

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#117

Post by kaiwetzel »

i386 wrote: post #92
andrewljohnson wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maps-gate, antenna-gate, BS-gate. Every time Apple ships an iDevice, the internet and tech press spin some yarn about a defect in the device, how it isn't a big enough improvement, how it's only smaller and thinner, how it's copying Android. And what happens... every, single, time? The public buys them in droves, and adores them to the last man. Apple Maps is both a strong technical flourish, and it's a bold strategy…

Here here. Apple have had plenty of failures even after Jobs second coming (Hello Ping!) and its highly revisionist of the technology talking heads to think otherwise. I believe Apple could have spent another year on it behind closed doors and not gotten much further than they are now. What Apple Maps needs is right now is users, well, using Apple Maps to help direct locations that need improving (that are not downto…

Not being a native speaker I had to google for it but it seems the correct usage is "hear, hear"[1]. (Just pointing it out in case other people are in a similar situation as me).

[1] http://www.unbecominglevity.com/2008/11/10/hear-hear-or-here...

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#118

Post by gnufied »

arrrg wrote: post #2

First, to get it out of the way: People are very right in mocking Apple. They deserve every bit of that. What they delivered with their Maps app is embarrassing. I do not want to defend that. The problem, however, is that this article assumes something to be unequivocally true even though we do not know whether it is: That Apple decided to build their own maps in order to hurt Google. It takes two to play. Both Apple…

I agree with - we do not know if Apple did what it did just to hurt Google but how about coming clean to its customers.

How about saying - "Dear iPhone users, your iOS map experience might downgrade little bit in certain cities of the world after upgrading to iOS6, because Google chose not share their Map data with us. We apologize for incovenience but we are working hard to ensure our own Map coverage improves worldwide "

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#119

Post by josephcooney »

meepmorp wrote: post #61
josephcooney wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does google force Apple to ship broken software again? I've forgotten....

By refusing to grant them a license to their map data in iOS 6? or placing such demands and restrictions on the license that it's preferable to Apple to just go with what they have?

Apple had the choice of shipping nothing at all, or licencing map data from someone else.

Re: How Apple's Obsession with Google Is Hurting Apple

#120

Post by nicholassmith »

hatcravat wrote: post #104
demallien wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of points spring to mind: 1) public transit is not a very big advantage. It is useful only in the handful of US cities that have decent public transport. In Paris, one of the great public transport cities in the world, google still doesn't provide public transport information. In 2012. Apple's solution, to rely on 3rd party devs for this has every chance if providing a solution to iPhone users before Google.…

Could it not be said that, "Turn-by-turn is not a very big advantage. It is only useful for the handful of people who are too poor not to have a navigation system built into their car?" It seems like the divide between the "iOS 6 maps suck!" crowd and the "iOS 6 maps are awesome!" crowd is whether a private car or public transportation is the primary method of getting around.

I don't think the iOS 6 Maps are too bad, walking directions have been good. I use public transport heavily but Google's public transport stuff didn't work for my area of England, so you don't miss what you never had.
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