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Meow.camera

meow.camera

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Re: Meow.camera

#201

Post by aksss »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #124
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations are gonna look back at us for our treatment of animals, especially farmed animals, much the way we look back at our slave owning ancestors. And just like we wonder how so many otherwise morally upstanding people participated in such an obviously abhorrent system as human slavery, they will think the same about people in our generation. Unfortunately, it turns out that social norms are extremely pow…

I actually agree. I have said this in another comment but I feel like its up to us. Slavery wasn't eradicated suddenly and became suddenly morally bad, I think that slowly but steadily we got better though till the point that now everyone mostly considers slavery morally evil. Lets hope the same can be the case with animals as well. I can't emphasize the impact of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqwpfEcBjI&t=25s (ea…

I believe there are more slaves today than ever in the history of the planet simply due to population growth. While everyone WE know thinks slavery is morally evil, most of the world does not hold that view. In fact, I would say the default human view (looking at all cultures across time memorial) is that slavery is the rule not the exception. That doesn't go away with modernity, it goes away with culture.

Re: Meow.camera

#202

Post by dudeofea »

chimprich wrote: post #199
b112 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an immense difference between factory farming, and traditional farming, of which most countries and places still do. I don't know what sort of fantasy lifestyle people think wild animals live, but it's constant fear of death all day long, fights with other of its kind over territory, constant predation, disease, pests (including bot flies and worms), starvation during population upswings, dying of thirst dur…

> Compare that with protection from predators, medical care, vaccination, shelter, reliable food and clean water, and stress free lives until a quick and fast death. Comparing farmed animals to wild animals is not really the point. A better comparison is a farmed animal compared to that animal not existing at all. We make the choice to bring them into existence. Are farmed animals better off existing than not? I thin…

The same applied to humans before it did to non-human animals. We are prescribing our worldview of "safe" predictable lives to them, just as was done to us.

Re: Meow.camera

#203

Post by dudeofea »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #75
Recursing wrote: post #35

I'm not vegan, but I'm always really surprised by the difference in how we see cats and pigs. See e.g. https://theintercept.com/2020/05/29/pigs-factory-farms-venti... https://www.ted.com/talks/lewis_bollard_how_to_end_factory_f... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_molting The US also has basically no animal welfare laws for the vast majority of its animals

Future generations are gonna look back at us for our treatment of animals, especially farmed animals, much the way we look back at our slave owning ancestors. And just like we wonder how so many otherwise morally upstanding people participated in such an obviously abhorrent system as human slavery, they will think the same about people in our generation. Unfortunately, it turns out that social norms are extremely pow…

Cultures that have many offspring usually care less about animal welfare (human and non-human) than those that have less offspring.

Cultures that have many offspring usually become the dominant culture of future generations.

Unless something catastrophic happens, I don't see how you can be right and I can be wrong.

Re: Meow.camera

#204

Post by flkiwi »

aksss wrote: post #201
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree. I have said this in another comment but I feel like its up to us. Slavery wasn't eradicated suddenly and became suddenly morally bad, I think that slowly but steadily we got better though till the point that now everyone mostly considers slavery morally evil. Lets hope the same can be the case with animals as well. I can't emphasize the impact of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqwpfEcBjI&t=25s (ea…

I believe there are more slaves today than ever in the history of the planet simply due to population growth. While everyone WE know thinks slavery is morally evil, most of the world does not hold that view. In fact, I would say the default human view (looking at all cultures across time memorial) is that slavery is the rule not the exception. That doesn't go away with modernity, it goes away with culture.

There’s also a significant conversation about mere illegality and social rejection not actually doing much to address the underlying tendency to exploitation that (a) has prevented reconciliation and relief for formerly enslaved people and their descendants for more than a century and (b) is woven through the labor model common even in the West. Exploited paid laborers aren’t in the same category as enslaved persons, but we shouldn’t fall into the trap of believing that economic injustice has been meaningfully addressed.

Re: Meow.camera

#205

Post by ants_everywhere »

aksss wrote: post #201
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree. I have said this in another comment but I feel like its up to us. Slavery wasn't eradicated suddenly and became suddenly morally bad, I think that slowly but steadily we got better though till the point that now everyone mostly considers slavery morally evil. Lets hope the same can be the case with animals as well. I can't emphasize the impact of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqwpfEcBjI&t=25s (ea…

I believe there are more slaves today than ever in the history of the planet simply due to population growth. While everyone WE know thinks slavery is morally evil, most of the world does not hold that view. In fact, I would say the default human view (looking at all cultures across time memorial) is that slavery is the rule not the exception. That doesn't go away with modernity, it goes away with culture.

To make room for slavery mentally you have to believe that some people are subhuman or at least beneath the threshold for human rights.

What's surprising to me is that it's become more common to describe people you dislike as subhuman and to for people to support violence or cruelty toward them. Similarly there is a trend to see hatred and anger as positive goods.

Re: Meow.camera

#206

Post by dTal »

Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #124
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations are gonna look back at us for our treatment of animals, especially farmed animals, much the way we look back at our slave owning ancestors. And just like we wonder how so many otherwise morally upstanding people participated in such an obviously abhorrent system as human slavery, they will think the same about people in our generation. Unfortunately, it turns out that social norms are extremely pow…

I actually agree. I have said this in another comment but I feel like its up to us. Slavery wasn't eradicated suddenly and became suddenly morally bad, I think that slowly but steadily we got better though till the point that now everyone mostly considers slavery morally evil. Lets hope the same can be the case with animals as well. I can't emphasize the impact of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqwpfEcBjI&t=25s (ea…

> aside from some eggs which I also can easily quit

Curious why you don't, then. Factory egg production isn't pretty.

Re: Meow.camera

#208

Post by squigz »

aksss wrote: post #201
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree. I have said this in another comment but I feel like its up to us. Slavery wasn't eradicated suddenly and became suddenly morally bad, I think that slowly but steadily we got better though till the point that now everyone mostly considers slavery morally evil. Lets hope the same can be the case with animals as well. I can't emphasize the impact of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gqwpfEcBjI&t=25s (ea…

I believe there are more slaves today than ever in the history of the planet simply due to population growth. While everyone WE know thinks slavery is morally evil, most of the world does not hold that view. In fact, I would say the default human view (looking at all cultures across time memorial) is that slavery is the rule not the exception. That doesn't go away with modernity, it goes away with culture.

Out of curiosity, which parts of the world is actual slavery a normal thing?

Re: Meow.camera

#209

Post by ultrarunner »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #182
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Future generations are gonna look back at us for our treatment of animals, especially farmed animals, much the way we look back at our slave owning ancestors. And just like we wonder how so many otherwise morally upstanding people participated in such an obviously abhorrent system as human slavery, they will think the same about people in our generation. Unfortunately, it turns out that social norms are extremely pow…

> Future generations are gonna look back at us for our treatment of animals, especially farmed animals, much the way we look back at our slave owning ancestors. Absolutely not. People are so much more important than pigs. Or dogs. Or any other animal. This isn’t a comparison a rational, empathetic person would make.

It's already happening. A story about mistreatment of a dog garners reactions like "how can someone act like that to a fur-baby". Same action toward a person and it's elided over as baseline expected violence. By the same token, quasi-deification of animals has happened for a very long time, and all it takes is a mutation of this idea to spread across popular culture.

Re: Meow.camera

#210

Post by ultrarunner »

harimau777 wrote: post #150
deepvibrations wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Knowing this, is there are a reason why you Aren't vegan?

Not the OP, but: I try to minimize the amount of meat that I eat; however, at this time I don't think that veganism is a viable strategy for optimal health for most Americans. That's particularly the case for athletes. It's simply too difficult to get enough protein and minimize carbs on a plant based diet. That's not to say that it's impossible. I have a friend who is a vegan bodybuilder but it requires a lot of ext…

What athletics do you participate in, and what are your macro targets?
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