Thank you Matz.
Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
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Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is just the tooling though, not "rubygems.org" which is still owned by a hostile entity (depending on where you sit on this), so not sure how this would restore any trust?
As a co-author of RubyGems and one of the original Board members of Ruby Central, they are not a hostile entity. They are the entity that we gave stewardship of RubyGems and we/they have hosted it for its entire existence.
I disagree. The actions are orthogonal to your claim - they eliminated everyone else from there. How is that not hostile? Duckinator has been 100% right here.
> we gave stewardship of RubyGems
I didn't sign anything.
I also remember the original creators of rubygems. How old is Ruby Central? 10 years? 15 years? There were several years before that.
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#83this is good and I hope this puts a lot of the drama in the rearview mirror. younger developers coming across Ruby must be like "wtf" about this situation. very peculiar to have these projects so politicised and I say that to the people that "try and keep politics out" (DHH) more than anyone. making your politics known and then being like "but you're not allowed to have an opinion on it" is't cute or clever. it's chi…
He's also in a bit of a unique situation because of his public political profile was essentially forced.
- Politics at work were becoming a huge problem at 37Signals
- They asked that politics be kept out of company chats, but encouraged people to be political active on non-work channels/social media/etc even during work hours
- People lost their minds at this incredibly reasonable request which then blew up on the internet
- They offered any employee 6 months severance if they weren't comfortable with the new policy. About 1/3 of the company took it.
- Rails Conf dis-invited the creator of Rails
- Obviously, this was not going to sit well as people were trying to create a very public political flex against DHH and at that point, he started getting much more vocal about the problem of politics sweeping into every aspect of life.
In the following years...
- DHH becomes very publicly outspoken against politics infecting everything
- 37 Signals publishes another successful book
- Ships much more quickly as all of the people constantly distracted by politics at work are no longer in the building
- Starts the Rails World conference to great success
- Rails Conf shuts down
- DHH ships Omarchy which is getting significant support
So the end result has been that a bunch of people tried to essentially "cancel" DHH and the result was him having virtually non-stop, resounding success while publicly speaking out against those who created the problem in the first place...because some people really do just want to build cool things regardless of your politics.
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#84In the long run, having multiple sources like gem.coop is probably a safer and more robust solution. But for RubyGems specifically, the trust was fully lost, through several layers - maintainers, community members, sponsors, etc. There's still open questions that probably need to be resolved like the funding and data privacy stuff, but I think most folks in ruby land will be supportive of this.
Agreed.
I think we have to wait and see how much momentum gem.coop can build. Right now they have promised "things for the future"; they will most likely also deliver eventually. But right now they are not there.
If and when they open beta, though, I'll begin to republish my old gems (not all, some I merged into other gems but most of the core stuff will be back) there. They have some things they should improve on though - documentation (also a problem that ruby doc was separate by the way), namespacing (this is in part also a problem that ruby had no primary way of namespacing; this is also a feature, but it should have a way to separate concerns when possible or wanted).
Anyway, I think we'll soon see what happens - I say people should evaluate again in about half a year or so, say like ... end of May 2026. I think this would be a more realistic time frame.
I do, however had, also suspect that DHH may become the biggest asset to gem.coop - every further snide remark he does on his blog, will gain new people who are upset, and some of those will eventually help contribute and benefit gem.coop. So for the end user this may be a win-win situation since they can install things how they like it, thus having more flexibility. Many can and will stay with rubygems.org, others may prefer gem.coop, many others will probably use and combine both (this may be a bit more difficult; guess gem.coop needs to think of a way to specify different gem sources on a per-gem basis too. Lots of work to be had for certain).
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#85NGL, the drama is entertaining. I'm sorry for Ruby people that are negatively impacted, tho. Lastly, Matz is the best!
So this whole thing stems from a dislike of DHH?
It also seems like rubygems.org could simply fork the rubygems code, perform whatever 'security and governance' changes they believed were needed in their fork, and run with that?
Isn't that the open source way of handling disagreements in direction?
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Matz is a pillar. Remember "Matz is nice and so we are nice"? s/nice/nice and responsible/gc.
Is that a religion now? The pickaxe guys coined it. People repeat it without thinking about it. If matz were to say "jump from the bridge", people would do it, because matz is nice? Just to point out: I do think matz is nice and a great language designer. That in itself doesn't mean anything. Why would I proxy my own decisions based on any mindless slogan? That makes no sense. Why do people in the ruby ecosystem keep…
I think it's pretty obvious to see the difference between being nice and jumping off a bridge? Curious why this cute phrase bothers you so much.
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any summary of what exaclty unfolded please (if you don't mind)? Sorry haven't been following the Ruby news for sometime.
The broad-strokes story is: * DHH said some things on his blog that some people believe to be deeply racist / fascist (not going to unpack whether they were or not because answering that question is irrelevant to the fact pattern; consult other threads for that debate). * A Ruby conference run by Ruby Central was asked to deplatform him. Since he's the creator of Rails, they declined. * In response to their decision,…
This is missing an important part of the story that makes the Ruby Central side look relatively better, which is that one of the existing maintainers offered to help fill the funding gap in exchange for being allowed to monetize the server logs. https://rubycentral.org/news/rubygems-org-aws-root-access-ev...
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Matz is a pillar. Remember "Matz is nice and so we are nice"? s/nice/nice and responsible/gc.
Is that a religion now? The pickaxe guys coined it. People repeat it without thinking about it. If matz were to say "jump from the bridge", people would do it, because matz is nice? Just to point out: I do think matz is nice and a great language designer. That in itself doesn't mean anything. Why would I proxy my own decisions based on any mindless slogan? That makes no sense. Why do people in the ruby ecosystem keep…
Is being nice equivalent to jumping off a bridge? I think it's relatively simple to comprehend and also harmless. The guy who built this thing is nice, let's try to continue that tradition so that our community doesn't turn to shit.
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Any summary of what exaclty unfolded please (if you don't mind)? Sorry haven't been following the Ruby news for sometime.
The broad-strokes story is: * DHH said some things on his blog that some people believe to be deeply racist / fascist (not going to unpack whether they were or not because answering that question is irrelevant to the fact pattern; consult other threads for that debate). * A Ruby conference run by Ruby Central was asked to deplatform him. Since he's the creator of Rails, they declined. * In response to their decision,…
This is not 100% correct though; I mean, your summary is good, don't get me wrong so I upvoted it. But it conflates a few issues that are not 100% related.
For instance, DHH and his fancy blog, are not 100% related or relatable to RubyCentral ousting long-term developers. There may be some connection (DHH on shopify's board, tons of ruby developers being paid by shopify and still writing "my opinion is totally unbiased" like byroot did), but there is no 1:1 overlap. For instance, I could not care what DHH writes on his blog any less. rubygems.org changing policies though - that affects me. And if shopify is in part responsible, and DHH sits on shopify and makes decisions, then yes, something changed here. But there are also people who have a vendetta against DHH and they leak into other spaces too. I am not among those people and they shouldn't try to hijack other communities either.
By the way, the Shopify ultimatum also does not explain why all other ruby devs were ousted. Ruby Central lost the narrative here. And, since they accuse Arko as the ultimate bad boy - why haven't they sued him? Why do they continue to refuse to do so? (Because they know their case would be rubbish nonsense and they would have to open up ALL emails, which may make many more people suddenly ... very funky.)
Re: Ruby core team takes ownership of RubyGems and Bundler
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Matz is a pillar. Remember "Matz is nice and so we are nice"? s/nice/nice and responsible/gc.
Is that a religion now? The pickaxe guys coined it. People repeat it without thinking about it. If matz were to say "jump from the bridge", people would do it, because matz is nice? Just to point out: I do think matz is nice and a great language designer. That in itself doesn't mean anything. Why would I proxy my own decisions based on any mindless slogan? That makes no sense. Why do people in the ruby ecosystem keep…
I know what you mean about mindless aspirational slogans. "No child left behind" is logically the same as "no child gets ahead". But trying to convince the Ruby community to be nice, by the example of their founder, isn't in that category. And if Matz told me to jump off of a bridge, he has enough stored up credibility that I'd at least consider it.