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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

nytimes.com

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Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#151

Post by joshyeager »

supportengineer wrote: post #138
tptacek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there. Later (Actually, super bad example…

I fucking hate beets. For bacon, what do you think of these? Applegate: https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h... Coleman: https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...

The Coleman bacon doesn't list ingredients. But the Applegate bacon lists celery powder because that is a source of nitrates. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celery_powder

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#152

Post by tptacek »

supportengineer wrote: post #138
tptacek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there. Later (Actually, super bad example…

I fucking hate beets. For bacon, what do you think of these? Applegate: https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h... Coleman: https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...

Applegate is notoriously celery-extract-cured. Same chemical endpoints in your body as industrially produced nitrite powder.

There's a really easy way to tell: does it taste like American bacon? Then: nitrites.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#153

Post by FirmwareBurner »

Yizahi wrote: post #38
SirFatty wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...how hard it is to find healthy food options compared to the unhealthy ones." Sure, if you limit your purchases to Dollar General and Casey's. If you spent time in an actual grocery store, you'd find that your comment isn't true.

The problem is that to a European citizen this is a bit unexpected. In Europe, in all countries, you can find roughly the same level of "safeness" of food across all tiers of stores. Go to a cheapest one and the most expensive one, and the yogurt, tomatoes or meat would be approximately the same quality and have the same nutritional components. The only difference would be that expensive store would additionally carr…

>But those steak cuts would be subject to the same standards as a cheap chicken meat in the cheap store.

Speaking also as an European, not they would not. There's a pretty big difference in the quality of the meant across the board between shops and brands(suppliers) of meat depending how the animals were raised, fed and cared for.

Here in Austria there's been plenty of scandals covering the poor conditions of animals in meat factories (living in feces, infections with puss, etc) yet the meat cuts receive the AMA seal of approval. I also did some work for the farm tech sector and the conditions of animals in some (most) EU countries I saw were indeed as appalling as those in the stories. It almost made me go vegan.

Sure, it's all(probably) technically safe to eat due to all the antibiotics they pump in those animals, just like in the US, but quality varies a lot.

And like sibling said, there's also a big difference between the quality of fruits and vegetables you find in supermarkets depending on where they come from and the conditions under which they were farmed.

That's why I dislike these over generalist "In Europe it's like this and that" blanket statements. No it isn't, it's just one point on the graph, but in reality it varies A LOT, it's a friggin continent ffs.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#154

Post by vector_spaces »

nradov wrote: post #126
vector_spaces wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You made a claim that plain yogurt is generally available in US food markets, attempting to make an inference about grocery store selections drawing from your own experience. I pointed out that it is not actually generally available and noted that your experience does not generalize. I am not sure why you mention eating habits, since this is not what is being discussed

My claim was 100% accurate and my experience does generalize. Plain yogurt with no added sugar is generally available at the vast majority of supermarkets throughout the country. I have actually seen it in both poor and affluent areas all over. But you don't have to take my word for it. Instead of making things up you can literally just go look.

Wow, 100% accurate? OK, I definitely can't argue with that. Nor I suppose can I argue much with overinterpreted anecdotes and absolutist analysis from a non-expert about a nuanced topic. You should start a Tiktok or a Substack or something, you are leaving money on the table.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#155

Post by Ekaros »

tptacek wrote: post #93

This all has very big "uncured bacon" energy to me (if you didn't already know: there's no such thing; vendors of uncured bacon performatively drive the same chemical nitrite reaction using vegetable extracts). For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan, which is on the order of calling dashi a UPF because of the kombu. It's not that there isn't a very legitimate issue underneath all this:…

I suppose it would not be bacon without curing. But I suppose uncured bacon would be thinly cut pork belly...

For curing you really need only salt(or nitrite or sugar). Nitrates do have benefits in longer processes.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#156

Post by nradov »

chimpanzee wrote: post #142
nradov wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look? As in open your eyes? It's literally right on the front of the package in large letters. You can see exactly what you're getting without even squinting at the fine print on the back.

> You can see exactly what you're getting without even squinting at the fine print on the back. So the nutrition facts and ingredients list doesn’t convey any new information? The designers managed to cram all that info into an appealing front facing label? And the marketers refrained from soft deceptions and convenient omissions, prioritizing truth and clarity over sales numbers? Sure.

Sure, if you want plain yogurt with no added sugar then you can find that just by looking at the front label. Have you ever been to a supermarket?

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#157

Post by Figs »

supportengineer wrote: post #138
tptacek wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there. Later (Actually, super bad example…

I fucking hate beets. For bacon, what do you think of these? Applegate: https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h... Coleman: https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...

Celery powder / extract / etc. are nitrites.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#159

Post by supportengineer »

joshyeager wrote: post #151
supportengineer wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fucking hate beets. For bacon, what do you think of these? Applegate: https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h... Coleman: https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...

The Coleman bacon doesn't list ingredients. But the Applegate bacon lists celery powder because that is a source of nitrates. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celery_powder

The Coleman one is the one I usually get these days, I used to get the Applegate.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#160

Post by tptacek »

Ekaros wrote: post #155
tptacek wrote: post #93

This all has very big "uncured bacon" energy to me (if you didn't already know: there's no such thing; vendors of uncured bacon performatively drive the same chemical nitrite reaction using vegetable extracts). For example: yogurt becomes a UPF simply by dint of adding carrageenan, which is on the order of calling dashi a UPF because of the kombu. It's not that there isn't a very legitimate issue underneath all this:…

I suppose it would not be bacon without curing. But I suppose uncured bacon would be thinly cut pork belly... For curing you really need only salt(or nitrite or sugar). Nitrates do have benefits in longer processes.

You can go to any Asian grocer and get thin-sliced pork belly and cook it up yourself to see the difference. It is not subtle. For American bacon flavor, you need nitrites (nitrates are a slow-release source of nitrites).
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