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How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

nytimes.com

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Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#131

Post by vector_spaces »

dragonwriter wrote: post #77
vector_spaces wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Large parts of the US are designated as food deserts, where one's best option for groceries might be the convenience store attached to a gas station. Good luck finding plain yogurt with no sugar added there. Your specific experience is exactly that. [1] https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/cha…

While I don't live in a food desert where these kind of stores are the only option, I have, in fact, regularly found plain yogurt in gas-station convenience stores, the even smaller refrigerated-food sections in urban drug stores, etc. Now, fresh produce, except—if you are very lucky—extremely expensive (for the quantity), relatively small packs of cut carrots and other things people might reasonably purchase as snac…

I have also found plain yogurt in gas station convenience stores

My issue was less with the plain yogurt specifically and more with the logic of the parent, namely that "X product has been available in every grocery store I have shopped in" implies that "X product can be found in every grocery store"

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#132

Post by vector_spaces »

kulahan wrote: post #80
vector_spaces wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every grocery store where I've shopped has yogurt with no added sugar. It's right there on the shelf, just look at the label. Large parts of the US are designated as food deserts, where one's best option for groceries might be the convenience store attached to a gas station. Good luck finding plain yogurt with no sugar added there. Your specific experience is exactly that. [1] https://ers.usda.gov/data-products/cha…

Looking at your source, it seems as though food deserts exist almost exclusively when you're very far from civilization. In which case you can just grow the food.

It actually says right at the top that overwhelmingly they are in urban areas

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#133

Post by talkingtab »

People in the US are so trained by the food industry, that they do not know what good food is. Yogurt for example. Here is an experiment you can do at home if you want to disbelieve my statement.

Step #1 Make good yogurt and eat it.

1. Go buy a quart of milk, full fat. 2. Buy some yogurt culture. Bulgarian preferred. 3. Follow the directions. You need to keep the temp at around 110F, warm water bath, heating pad, hot water bottles, put it in a cooler, whatever.

This is one of the best foods there is.

Step 2. Go to your grocery store or stores and try to find some yogurt that is as good.

You can repeat these steps for other foods. Coffee - roast your own. Cheese. Just go to a gourmet cheese store. Get something that does not come in a plastic bag.

Or go to Europe and try real croissants. Everyone in Paris can get real croissants almost anywhere every day. And not to mention real bread - again the plastic bag.

We are so used to what is available here that we have come believe it is "food" when really it is just adulterated to have a long shelf life. Sorry, but really just try it.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#134

Post by ruralfam »

Not sure this is a good post, but might be so taking the risk. I am snacking right now on some UPF - my 10% vice. However, my 90% is pretty good. One NOT-UPF staple is steel cut oats that are slow cooked. Very easy, healthy and likely as NOT-UPF as you can get. Recipie: 3 cups steel cut oats (I use Bob's Red Mill Organic), 1+ Qt water, 1 Qt Skim Milk, 1+ Teaspon salt. Combine everything into a suitable pot. Slow cook at 150F for six hours. Stir occasionally. Explore ways to eat. E.g. warm in microwave with some blueberries, and a bit of brown sugar. Stores in the Fridge for a long time. HTH, NSC (+ means "a bit more than")

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#135

Post by supportengineer »

BetaDeltaAlpha wrote: post #74
vector_spaces wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that you recognize that your casual-outsider evaluation of the assortments of these stores is deeply flawed and not based on actual data. If you think about it even just a little bit, you'll recognize that it wouldn't make sense for a supermarket in one of the highest median income cities in the country to have assortment parity with a chain targeting cost conscious shoppers. The devil here is in the long-tail…

Safeway is the cost conscious option in Mountain View, compare it with the other options (Whole Foods, Nijiya). The comparison between Publix and Safeway is apt.

Heh, in Mountain View you also have these choices:

- La Plaza Market

- 99 Ranch

- Grocery Outlet

- Rose Market

- Nob Hill

- Lucky

- Smart & Final

- Walmart

- Target

- India Cash & Carry

- Bharat Bazar

I'm probably leaving out a ton.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#136

Post by Havoc »

Currently trying to track down a something I'm sensitive/allergic to and this is where I started - a wide but pretty bland whole foods diet.

Theory being that the issue is one of the billion colourants/flavourants/preservatives & cooking from scratch cuts most of them.

Too early to confidently tell (4 days in)...but the vibes sure feel promising

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#137

Post by jeffbee »

portaouflop wrote: post #112
jeffbee wrote: post #36

I just opened up www dot amazon dot com and filled my cart with $50 worth of food that will be delivered to my door in a few hours: rice, potatoes, farro, beans, peppers, ginger, onions, garlic frozen peas, frozen carrots, plain low-fat yogurt, chicken thighs, and good bread. I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food. If anything, American capitalism has heaped upon us…

Sad that you have to buy this stuff online. I can go downstairs to a grocery store and just buy it from real humans, not lining bezos pockets.

I don't have to buy it online. I live in Berkeley, California where, if anything, we have a totally unsustainable flood of food outlets that keep going out of business because the competition is too great. I only point to Amazon because it's a website, anyone can order from it even if their local grocers are bozos.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#138

Post by supportengineer »

tptacek wrote: post #114
supportengineer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only get the bacon that says "No nitrates, no nitrites"

If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there. Later (Actually, super bad example…

I fucking hate beets.

For bacon, what do you think of these?

Applegate:

https://www.raleys.com/product/10400628/applegate-naturals-h...

Coleman:

https://www.raleys.com/product/103101180/coleman-natural-bac...

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#139

Post by littlestymaar »

tptacek wrote: post #114
supportengineer wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only get the bacon that says "No nitrates, no nitrites"

If you're talking about American-style bacon, and it tastes like bacon, there's no such thing. They're just exploiting labeling rules by selecting very specific nitrite sources. Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor. This is before we get to the whole premise of avoiding nitrates. Would you eat a beet? That's a serving of industrial bacon's worth of nitrates right there. Later (Actually, super bad example…

> Nitrites are what give bacon (and ham) its flavor.

Are you sure about that?

Because it's the first time ever I stumbled upon this argument.

The explanation I heard is that there are legit bacterial food safety concerns (salmonella and listeria, IIRC) that justify using nitrites even if they are by themself harmful, the benefit/risk ratio is simply favorable to nitrites.

Re: How America got hooked on ultraprocessed foods

#140

Post by jeffbee »

humptybumpty wrote: post #111
jeffbee wrote: post #36

I just opened up www dot amazon dot com and filled my cart with $50 worth of food that will be delivered to my door in a few hours: rice, potatoes, farro, beans, peppers, ginger, onions, garlic frozen peas, frozen carrots, plain low-fat yogurt, chicken thighs, and good bread. I don't want to hear anyone telling me that American capitalism has robbed us of real food. If anything, American capitalism has heaped upon us…

Maybe pricing has something to do with it? Total 27,00€ ($31.57) 1kg potatos, 0,99€ 3pcs bell peppers, 1,03€ (x) 1pcs ginger, 0,90€ (x) 1kg onions, 1,59€ 100g garlic, 1,45€ (x) 500g carrots, 0,89€ 500g frozen peas, 1,09€ 1 can white beans, 1,09€ (x) fresh fancy bread, 3,69€ 400g chicken thighs, 4,99€ 1l plain low-fat yogurt, 2,55€ 1kg rice, 3,79€ (x) 650g ”farro”, 2,95€ (x) imported, not local Typical prices in Finla…

My prices weren't very different from those, but my quantities were higher: 5lb (2.25kg) potatoes, 4lb (1.8kg) dried beans, 15lb (6.8kg) of rice, yogurt 1kg by weight not sure of volume, etc.
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