Live data from Hacker News

Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

satcom.sysnet.ucsd.edu

31–40 of 145 posts

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption is basically free as far as I know, but it is more complex and it must be hard to get software updates up there.

It is almost free on modern CPUs that have hardware acceleration, yea

Wireguard uses ChaCha20, which to my knowledge neither has nor requires HW acceleration to be fast.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#32
post #16

I see no issue with the satellite backhaul itself being unencrypted; anyone using the satellite provider should assume they're hostile and encrypt+authenticate everything they send anyway. I don't trust my ISP's fiber to be snoop-resistant just because they nominally have some shitty ONT encryption. Obviously the specific examples of end-users failing to encrypt are bad, but that's not really a problem with the satel…

If someone is browsing the internet on in-flight wifi, and their DNS requests get leaked this way, I don't really think its the casual airline user's fault for not encrypting their DNS traffic. Modern cell phone data traffic (4G/5G) is all encrypted, so the same unencrypted DNS requests can't just be passively sniffed. Something similar should happen here.

I'd blame the airline or their ISP provider for sending unencrypted traffic through the air like this. Not the satellite, but its top level customer. There's a big difference, IMHO, between your ISP being able to sniff your fiber traffic, and your traffic being observable from ~30% of the globe.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#33
post #5

> remarkably, nearly all the end-user consumer Internet browsing and app traffic we observed used TLS or QUIC There was a surprising amount of resistance to the push to enable TLS everywhere on the public Internet. I'm glad it was ultimately successful.

It was only successful because Google said you'd rank higher if you did it.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#34
Some of the stuff that was extracted from the unencrypted traffic in the link:

- T-Mobile backhaul: Users' SMS, voice call contents and internet traffic content in plain text.

- AT&T Mexico cellular backhaul: Raw user internet traffic

- TelMex VOIP on satellite backhaul: Plaintext voice calls

- U.S. military: SIP traffic exposing ship names

- Mexico government and military: Unencrypted intra-government traffic

- Walmart Mexico: Unencrypted corporate emails, plaintext credentials to inventory management systems, inventory records transferred and updated using FTP

This is insane!

While it is important to work on futuristic threats such as Quantum cryptanalysis, backdoors in standardized cryptographic protocols, etc. - the unfortunate reality is that the vast majority of real-world attacks happen because basic protection is not enabled. Good reminder not take our eyes off the basics.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#35
Does anyone remember the days when you pointed a 60cm antenna at the Hispasat 30W and connected your DVB-S2 tuner in Windows, Using Crazycat's BDADataEx, you tuned an IP data transponder. Using a technique called Satfish (with a software I don't remember), some files were reconstructed, usually vsat data from oil platforms... and porn.

I'm going to dust off the TBS DVB-S2X card and try to find a data transponder to test the DontLookup app. https://github.com/ucsdsysnet/dontlookup

Where I live, it's almost impossible to find any interest in FTA or pirated SAT TV.

att: ham radio operator interested in satellite radio :D

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#36
post #34

Some of the stuff that was extracted from the unencrypted traffic in the link: - T-Mobile backhaul: Users' SMS, voice call contents and internet traffic content in plain text. - AT&T Mexico cellular backhaul: Raw user internet traffic - TelMex VOIP on satellite backhaul: Plaintext voice calls - U.S. military: SIP traffic exposing ship names - Mexico government and military: Unencrypted intra-government traffic - Walm…

Is there a git repo that lets one read this stuff in real time yet?

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#37
post #33
post #5

> remarkably, nearly all the end-user consumer Internet browsing and app traffic we observed used TLS or QUIC There was a surprising amount of resistance to the push to enable TLS everywhere on the public Internet. I'm glad it was ultimately successful.

It was only successful because Google said you'd rank higher if you did it.

It was only successful because of Let's Encrypt removing any excuse for not having HTTPS on your website, HSTS becoming a thing, and Chrome moving from gentle inducements (that cute green padlock) to nasty looking warnings if you didn't use encryption.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#38

Section 6.3.2 is an eye-opener... good lord... Gets even worse at 6.4.2-3

It's absolutely jaw-dropping. Either no-one at these companies was capable of understanding the problem, or no-one cared enough to do something about it.

From my time in similar companies, some people understand, and might care, but aren't empowered to do anything about it. They've got a job to do, and creatively auditing network security isn't it. Finding this kind of issue on the company clock won't get them promoted, on the contrary they'll look like they're slowing the team down with vulnerabilities to fix when they've got stuff to build and sell. Very poor security culture.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encryption is basically free as far as I know, but it is more complex and it must be hard to get software updates up there.

It is almost free on modern CPUs that have hardware acceleration, yea

Space-faring electronics aren't exactly cost-sensitive - the cost of a cluster of crypto-accelerated CPUs or rad-hardened FPGAs is peanuts compared to the human and launch costs that go into these satellites.

Re: Don’t Look Up: Sensitive internal links in the clear on GEO satellites [pdf]

#40

Had a vendor offer a customer of mine a huge discount if they purchased radios without the encryption license in the year of our lord 2024. Not even WPA or WEP. Just clear across the sky. And this is terrestrial. My bet is that in space there would be a noticable increase in heat/energy if they did encryption by default. But its still incredible to see them pretend like space is impossible to get to, ultimate obscuri…

Likely no consequences to the decision-makers for data exfiltration or other shenanigans happening, so there's nothing motivating a behavior change. The reason security is so bad everywhere is that nobody gets fired when there's a breach. It's just blamed on the hackers and everyone just goes on with life singing "We take security very seriously--this happened because of someone else!"

Who do you imagine will get fired? The CISO who's been recommending various security imporvements and been trying to get them implemented, but been unable to do so due to a lack of C level interest in IT. Or the C level's who lack interest in IT security until it bites them in the investor?

At least here in the EU we're moving toward personal responsibility for C level's who don't take IT and OT security serious in critical sectors, but in my anecdotal experience that is the first time anything regarding security has actually made decision makers take it serious. A lot of it is still just bureaucracy though. We have a DORA and NIS2 compliant piece of OT that is technically completely insecure but is compliant because we've written a detailed plan on how to make it secure.

Post reply on HN