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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

cnbc.com

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#221

Post by dylan604 »

dgfitz wrote: post #173
dylan604 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen US numbers along 70-80% is imported. That leaves 20-30% domestic. Some of the REEs are 100% imported, so that's a different issue. But you seem to be implying that the US is 100% importing all REEs with no domestic production at all. That's not true. Yes, some production is slowed due to environmental issues. Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's…

[flagged]

Uneducated conclusions like seeing 70-80% being imported means losing access to the exporters would be devastating? Seeing those numbers shows exactly how far away the US is from being self reliant? See how it means that the US is in a weak negotiating position, and that any bolstering from the orange man is pure bullshit? Please, enlighten me where these uneducated conclusions are wrong.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#222

Post by bdangubic »

gerash wrote: post #202
bdangubic wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA is nationalizng Intel and under this administration more of the commie shit is coming :)

The argument I have heard about the US taking 20% stake in Intel is that when a company asks for federal money then it’s only fair if the federal government gets some equity in return. You can’t socialize losses and privatize gains.

if we are not a communist country (everyone seems to think that we are not) why the F would we socialize losses?!?

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#223

Post by bdangubic »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #216
gerash wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument I have heard about the US taking 20% stake in Intel is that when a company asks for federal money then it’s only fair if the federal government gets some equity in return. You can’t socialize losses and privatize gains.

> You can’t socialize losses and privatize gains. Yes, yes, and yes. We kept doing this, a bank or company stretches too much after making record profits, and then cries for federal funding and free money. The federal reserve is a lender of last resort and they shouldn’t have given that much money without any collateral etc. Even if they just kept the stock and then sold it afterwards, we wouldn’t be in this much deb…

easiest way to get downvoted on HN is to point out that we are the largest socialist country on the planet exactly because of this. there isn’t any shit we won’t socialize losses on (farming, banking… you name it, US has got your back)

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#224

Post by yunesj »

maxdo wrote: post #84
HSO wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society. China would do it without a blink.

China liberalized their economy to compete with Western economies, showing their leaders don’t really believe in communism.

And the US and Europe are moving towards command economies to keep up with China, showing their politicians don’t really believe in liberalism.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#225

Post by maximus_01 »

higginsniggins wrote: post #205
next_xibalba wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese heavily subsidize their companies and have large government bureaus that strategically guide industries over long time frames. For example, the CCP has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international solar manufacturers via subsidies, dumping, etc. This is not how free markets function.

A free market just means that people are allowed to buy and sell what they want. If a government decides to help some industries that is irrelevant. It stops being free when government attacks economic activity, not when it promotes it.

I'm not really disagreeing with you as it's not like there is a 100% true definition of a free market, different people can have different conceptions, but the original Adam Smith / classical view is that a free market should essentially be 100% driven by the private market on supply and demand - with as little government intervention as possible on either side of the ledger (subsidy or blocking)

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#226

Post by markus_zhang »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #143
HPsquared wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For my friends, everything; for my enemies, the law."

I wonder how this would affect patent applications, since after such an event, some countries might not respect patents for their internal markets.

I think it depends on how many gloves are taken off. China in its position would want to sustain global trade and actually more and more respect the current international order, if there is any.

But I don't think the other players want that order to live forever, so we will see. I just hope we don't get WW3, and that's good enough for me.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#227

Post by FpUser »

itopaloglu83 wrote: post #133
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

Everybody is a fan of free access and capital markets, until a foreign entity purchases something of importance. It’s a continuation of recent trends and closing markets. Nobody in their sane mind would allow a company like ASML or the likes to be purchased by competitors. But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the…

>But the irony is that when a non-European entity were to do something like this, e.g. nationalize their oil or mining etc. industry or a firm, the whole hell would brake loose."

We live in a "Rules Based Order" - one rule for thee, another one for me.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#228

Post by maximus_01 »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #194
next_xibalba wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to spot the difference between Apple and the Chinese government.

I’m not hearing an argument, and I won’t be thinking one up for you. Seems like only a difference of degree to me.

I'm not here to debate whether free markets are good or bad, but governments have a privileged position versus private companies, and effectively operate above the law (again at least compared to private companies). Any government intervention takes us away from a free market, either a little bit or a lot, depending on the action. Apple is a private company. Anything it does is really part of the free market, at least in the original meaning of that as described by Adam Smith and co.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#229

Post by neves »

like_any_other wrote: post #184
wagwang wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the suez canal or iranian oil fields

What about them? The claim, or rather implication, was that Western powers would never allow equivalent protectionist policies, such as preventing the export of key industries and skills, to be enacted by other countries. Yet such protectionism is routine in China (and many other Asian countries), and "whole hell" did not break loose. A few more than half century old examples don't change what we can all see is the c…

It looks like that to do it, first, you need to have some atomic bombs.

But talking seriously, the OP didn't say that other countries never do it. Just that the powers have innumerable examples of coups to knock out governments that do this. A lot of them were democratic and popular governments.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#230

Post by vachina »

corimaith wrote: post #100
bigbadfeline wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Either way, it cannot be stopped, China will develop independent technology sector because they can and they have no other choice. They don't trust the West and cases like this make such attitude understandable. As soon as China tries to compete with the rich monopolies, the "free market" goes out of the window and becomes "free to do as we tell you".

>As soon as China tries to compete with the rich monopolies, the "free market" goes out of the window and becomes "free to do as we tell you". When China cannot compete with incumbents those protections also go up and when they can now people like you appeal to free trade (while ignoring existing protections). You are being overly charitable to one side here. Which is it? Free trade or Protectionism?

A big distinction is the Chinese do not meddle with affairs outside their borders.
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