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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

cnbc.com

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#191

Post by emmelaich »

Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

It's a bit pathetic that European countries do not have the tech capacity to compete equally without having to do stuff like this.

(Not saying China is playing fair btw, just saying there's a vast amount of underused intellectual resources in Europe.)

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#192

Post by next_xibalba »

philosopher1234 wrote: post #190
next_xibalba wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese heavily subsidize their companies and have large government bureaus that strategically guide industries over long time frames. For example, the CCP has been on a long, intentional path to destroying all international solar manufacturers via subsidies, dumping, etc. This is not how free markets function.

Lol, how is this not a free market? Apple subsidizes dozens of organizations internally to advance its strategic interests, what’s the difference?

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to spot the difference between Apple and the Chinese government.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#193

Post by wagwang »

like_any_other wrote: post #184
wagwang wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about the suez canal or iranian oil fields

What about them? The claim, or rather implication, was that Western powers would never allow equivalent protectionist policies, such as preventing the export of key industries and skills, to be enacted by other countries. Yet such protectionism is routine in China (and many other Asian countries), and "whole hell" did not break loose. A few more than half century old examples don't change what we can all see is the c…

Sure but can we just all drop the pretense that sovereignty and property rights mean anything. The only thing that really matters is power and how you get it. You can do protectionism if you are powerful, you can take whatever you want if you are powerful, etc etc.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#194

Post by philosopher1234 »

next_xibalba wrote: post #192
philosopher1234 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, how is this not a free market? Apple subsidizes dozens of organizations internally to advance its strategic interests, what’s the difference?

I'll leave it as an exercise for the reader to spot the difference between Apple and the Chinese government.

I’m not hearing an argument, and I won’t be thinking one up for you. Seems like only a difference of degree to me.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#195

Post by fn-mote »

galangalalgol wrote: post #130
markus_zhang wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are fine in term of infra -- I don't work as a civil engineer, but considering companies in my city repair the roads every year /s they probably retain the knowledge.

How easy is the machinery and tools needed to keep all the infrastructure running? Earth movers are pretty maintainable and barely depreciate. Survey tools though? They have gotten famcy right? Water management has gone quite high tech in some ways. I could see them falling apart kind of like when some hospitals had to revert to paper tape logs. It didn't scale anymore.

> Earth movers are pretty maintainable and barely depreciate

Beware hardware DRM locking up the repairs. That would make everything more fragile.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#196

Post by kaibee »

kapone wrote: post #178
fakedang wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA does not have the refining capacity which will take another 8 years to build out.

Wrong. We don’t need to build refining capacity. We just need to remind China that who’s the big dog, which we seem to be doing. They’ll fall in line quickly enough.

Aye yea, the war will be over by Christmas!

I've heard this one before.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#197

Post by chrisco255 »

h45gJaqk wrote: post #74

The timing is weird, just after Trump's latest escalation with China. Using The Netherlands to fall into the sword would fit with the general tactics of dumping the Ukraine war on the EU and trying to sour their relations with China. That way, the U.S. is free to control all oil resources in the Middle East and conquer new ones in Venezuela. The EU gets nothing but enemies and higher oil and gas prices. In principle…

> In principle I'm against outsourcing or technology transfers to China, but please do it on you own schedule.

In principle, the tit for tat policy with China should have been initiated 15 years ago. China has restricted its own markets in similar ways since at least that far back, and it was clear then, when they banned Google in 2010, that they were not playing by the same playbook as we were.

The U.S. doesn't control oil in the Middle East, that would be Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, Iran, etc, all sovereign nations with their own governments. It also produces more domestically than its own demand and is a net exporter of oil.

Also, not sure why the Ukraine war is the United States responsibility over the EU's responsibility given that its your next-door neighbor and its your eastern flank that would suffer if Ukraine were to fall to Russian control. EU, of course, partly responsible for enriching Russia to the point where it can afford such a war with its own purchases of gas while shuttering nuclear power plants for indescribable reasons.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#198

Post by reliabilityguy »

xboxnolifes wrote: post #137
reliabilityguy wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As soon as it gets inconvenient or the table is turned, they are dropped like a hot potato. I am confused. Are non-“western” stars/nations better in this regard? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

It doesn't matter if they are better or worse. Your own principles should not be things that shift based on what somebody else does.

I asked OP the question about their comment, and not about whether principles should do this or that.

That being said I do not believe in absolutes. One example why such an absolutist approach fails is the tolerance of intolerant, which in itself makes the whole society intolerant, and fails to uphold the absolute principle of tolerance.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#199

Post by emmelaich »

maxglute wrote: post #179
this_user wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That whole REE thing is more of a scare tactic than anything. REEs are really not all that rare, and the current imports of REEs into the US are worth around $200-250M annually. That is millions, not billions. It's actually a laughably small amount. The main reason that it's mostly China producing them may simply be due to the fact that the volumes are so small that building your own industry is not really worth it.

Strategic REEs, i.e. heavyREE (Dysprosium, Terbium) are infact exceptionally rare, as in GEOLOGICALLY RARE. They are produced in China, because China (and Myanmar deposits controlled by China) are where ionic clays containing strategic HREEs can be economically extracted at scale. It's not just building altenrate HREE (empahsis on H) is not worth it, the technology simply doesn't exist to do so in other geologic depo…

I really wonder how much rare earth element deposits are not found for want of looking. Not much reason to source them yourselves if the country (China) uses them for products that you're going to buy.

According to this map, China has vastly more. But is there something special about China/Myanmar geologically? I guess being downstream of the Himalayas is something.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rare-eart...

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#200

Post by fn-mote »

kapone wrote: post #178
fakedang wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USA does not have the refining capacity which will take another 8 years to build out.

Wrong. We don’t need to build refining capacity. We just need to remind China that who’s the big dog, which we seem to be doing. They’ll fall in line quickly enough.

I really cannot tell if this is sarcasm (seems not?) or trolling (sounds like it).

How are we reminding China that the US is a big dog? By imposing tariffs? By demonstrating our ability to do work domestically that they believe us unwilling or incapable of doing?

What does this even mean, to be a big dog in the modern world? It seems more like a large ship listing to one side … if it collapses there will be a lot of small ships damaged in the wake.

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