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Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

cnbc.com

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Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#121

Post by tmnvix »

dylan604 wrote: post #91
dgfitz wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries don’t do it, including the US. “Ready and willing” is quite the turn of phrase.

I've seen US numbers along 70-80% is imported. That leaves 20-30% domestic. Some of the REEs are 100% imported, so that's a different issue. But you seem to be implying that the US is 100% importing all REEs with no domestic production at all. That's not true. Yes, some production is slowed due to environmental issues. Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's…

> Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's". You keep yours in the ground until you have to get it.

My understanding is that a large part of the issue is processing capacity/ability - not mining of the ore. In fact, a significant amount of ore mined in the US is sent to China for processing. I don't think it's a simple case of the US standing up some processing plants in 1-2 years. If that were the case, wouldn't you think it would've happened by now? Is US leadership that bad that they failed to address this risk? Or - more likely - is it because solving the issue will take a lot more than some quick investment?

This is a huge issue for the US MIC. Plans (e.g. with regard to Iran) are going back to the drawing board for sure.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#122

Post by this_user »

tmnvix wrote: post #17
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used. Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking - for the first time - their own legislation from the 50's to ban rare earth exports for military uses.

That whole REE thing is more of a scare tactic than anything. REEs are really not all that rare, and the current imports of REEs into the US are worth around $200-250M annually. That is millions, not billions. It's actually a laughably small amount.

The main reason that it's mostly China producing them may simply be due to the fact that the volumes are so small that building your own industry is not really worth it.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#123

Post by hshdhdhj4444 »

maxdo wrote: post #84
HSO wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society. China would do it without a blink.

“Protect their market” - And yet the U.S. and Europe are richer than ever.

It’s hilarious seeing the US oligarchs distracting from the fact that they’ve transferred massive amounts of wealth from the broader society to themselves by blaming every one else.

There is a fair argument to protect strategic industries and actions like these are probably needed, but let’s not pretend the “markets” are at risk because of anything China is doing, which is essentially giving Americans and Europeans actual stuff in return for pieces of paper.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#124

Post by RealityVoid »

mk89 wrote: post #99
maxdo wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a myth. Yes, we allow them to move faster—much faster—but it’s simply because their government is more efficient. Western society, in contrast, runs on a kind of religion. People follow a few belief systems: socialism, right-wing conservatism, and perhaps liberalism as a softer sub-flavor. Here’s the fun part: China learned the hard way that no single dogma—whether communism or anything else—is worth worshipin…

It's not a myth - China wouldn't be in this situation without Nike/etc. going there in the 80's to "reduce" costs (to actually increase their profits). That triggered the whole chain. They thought they could just jump ship when the prices would increase, but what they didn't expect was that they had a guy that instead of getting just fatter and fatter (like many leaders in the world who finally become corrupt etc) ac…

> About the rest of the post - I would say it's a bit more complicated than just black or white.

Yes, I think that was his point as well. Policy is a set of tools, and depending on the current state of the system there is a right tool for the the job,with, of course, a set of tradeoffs. Discarding tools "of the right" or "of the left" is foolish.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#125

Post by fakedang »

tmnvix wrote: post #17
Doxin wrote: post #5

Some more context from a dutch news source[0]: The ministry of economic affairs intervened out of a fear that crucial technological skills and capacities will leave the Netherlands and Europe. The ministry stated in a press release[1] that there was a threat of a "knowledge leak" (w/e that means exactly) and a possible threat to the European economy. After this intervention the Dutch government can now stop or revers…

> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used. Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking - for the first time - their own legislation from the 50's to ban rare earth exports for military uses.

This is it.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#126

Post by fakedang »

markus_zhang wrote: post #109
trhway wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how the large unified world of Roman Empire with running water and sewer fell apart (and backwards) into multitude of small feudal pieces with no technology to speak of for the 1000 years after Roman Empire. I think our modern civilization is probably at the beginning of similar process.

I think we are fine in term of infra -- I don't work as a civil engineer, but considering companies in my city repair the roads every year /s they probably retain the knowledge.

Exactly. Building roads and aqueducts were empire-level knowledge skills in Ancient Rome, performed by the army legions. Thankfully they're highly localized skills today.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#127

Post by protocolture »

maxdo wrote: post #84
HSO wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

EU and west finally TRYING to protect their market the way China is doing it all the time. They tax, ban, espionage everything beneficial to their society. China would do it without a blink.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australia%E2%80%93Timor-Leste_...

Uh, you gotta understand that China has never been alone.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#128

Post by fakedang »

dylan604 wrote: post #54
dgfitz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you tracking that harvesting REM is a nasty business with a lot of “don’t look” environmental impacts? As such, most countries don’t do it, or have an infrastructure for it.

https://rareearthexchanges.com/best-rare-earth-mining-compan... Plenty of US companies ready and willing. They've finally gotten an administration that is of like mind on screw the environment and dig dig dig.

USA does not have the refining capacity which will take another 8 years to build out.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#129

Post by reliabilityguy »

HSO wrote: post #106
yoavm wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what exactly are you learning in this case from the actions, the data, the private citizens or the scholars, that is so different from "Western" explanations?

[flagged]

> As soon as it gets inconvenient or the table is turned, they are dropped like a hot potato.

I am confused. Are non-“western” stars/nations better in this regard? I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say.

Re: Dutch government takes control of Chinese-owned chipmaker Nexperia

#130

Post by galangalalgol »

markus_zhang wrote: post #109
trhway wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wondered how the large unified world of Roman Empire with running water and sewer fell apart (and backwards) into multitude of small feudal pieces with no technology to speak of for the 1000 years after Roman Empire. I think our modern civilization is probably at the beginning of similar process.

I think we are fine in term of infra -- I don't work as a civil engineer, but considering companies in my city repair the roads every year /s they probably retain the knowledge.

How easy is the machinery and tools needed to keep all the infrastructure running? Earth movers are pretty maintainable and barely depreciate. Survey tools though? They have gotten famcy right? Water management has gone quite high tech in some ways. I could see them falling apart kind of like when some hospitals had to revert to paper tape logs. It didn't scale anymore.
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