Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

bluewin.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 655 posts

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#121

Post by sarchertech »

hypeatei wrote: post #97
sarchertech wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. You get the money now as opposed to potentially many years from now. 2. You likely get much more money if they die now without spending it on cost of living, and healthcare. People do all kinds of awful things in order to get control of an elderly family member’s money—up to and including outright murder. Pressuring a suggestible family member into assisted suicide is a comparatively easy and low risk method.

> People do all kinds of awful things in order to ... Okay, sure, but how much of the population is this awful and does it actually matter since they can't consent to someone else's suicide anyway? I don't think this is as much of a widespread issue as its made out to be, to be honest.

I don’t know how many people are like this. I do know that financial incentives result in more or behavior.

It’s already common for caregivers to begin to resent the people they care for and for old people to worry that they are a liability.

I don’t trust the system to be able to protect vulnerable people who have been coerced. And I don’t want old people in general to feel like suicide is their obligation.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#122

Post by nprateem »

mitthrowaway2 wrote: post #79
Freak_NL wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. Where? This is a thing which always pops up in these debates because it is a deep-rooted fear, but are there countries where this is a thing?

MAID being inappropriately offered to people who haven't expressed interest in it, and also being extended widely to people without terminal illness, has certainly become a controversy in Canada. https://archive.is/bd0PV https://thewalrus.ca/assisted-dying/ https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/article/doesnt-line-up-mps-c...

Why should only terminally ill people get this choice? A 16 year old can decide who to kill in the army but apparently they (and we) aren't competent to choose whether to take one's own life.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#123

Post by [deleted] »

anilgulecha wrote: post #20

I'm part of the Jain community in Bangalore, and the version of this in society exists, called Sallekhna [1], a tradition that's developed over millennia, and this is venerated and celebrated. The philosophical underpinning is giving up of materialness. The practicality of the 5 instances that I witnessed over the past year - typical terminal individuals choose this. They pass away surrounded by loved ones (they typi…

[deleted]

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#124

Post by le-mark »

anilgulecha wrote: post #20

I'm part of the Jain community in Bangalore, and the version of this in society exists, called Sallekhna [1], a tradition that's developed over millennia, and this is venerated and celebrated. The philosophical underpinning is giving up of materialness. The practicality of the 5 instances that I witnessed over the past year - typical terminal individuals choose this. They pass away surrounded by loved ones (they typi…

This is essentially what hospice is in the US. They stop curative treatment and focus on comfort. Then at the end when the person can no longer function to eat or drink they increase the morphine dose to a high level until they pass.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#125

Post by sarchertech »

nabla9 wrote: post #83
sarchertech wrote: post #44

So he was very old without any significant problems, but he wanted to avoid the inevitable problems? If you’ve already made it to 90 with no major issues, you’re expected to make it to 95 and you could make easily live to 100. My wife’s grandad is 90 and he still lives alone, drives, plays golf nearly everyday, and regularly sees his 12 grandchildren and many great grandchildren. He even made the 9 hour trip to come…

If the society treats people badly, that's not a reason to deny them the ability to do final exit with dignity. We must fight to fix the problem cases, not take dignity away from those who suffer from it. > It’s relatively common for families to push people into nursing homes, So you are rejected by your family and punished even more by taking away a dignified exit strategy?

Nothing is being taken away. Medically assisted suicide to prevent old age has never been a right anyone has had under any legal framework until very recently. And it’s not a right anyone has anywhere but a few countries.

You can argue that more countries should grant that right. But if you’re going to do so, you need to have an answer for the incentives it creates.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#126

Post by wazdra »

AQuantized wrote: post #92
lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

> You really don't want to end up with dementia and related illnesses, it totally sours everyone's view of you. This seems like such an absurd conclusion to this, as though the opinions of other people of you are what matter when you functionally lose your personhood and then die. Maybe a better focus would be that there often isn't a good way for a community to manage a person who suddenly becomes irrational because…

Valuing how others remember you is definitely a motivation in life for many. I respect that it is not your own, respect that it may be mine. It is by no means "absurd".

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#127

Post by raffael_de »

kranke155 wrote: post #80
WA wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but if you are in that state, you probably don’t give a shit and everybody else seems to be the problem. So how do you solve this? When dementia isn’t too far progressed, your life seems to be still worthwhile to live and once the dementia gets worse, it’s too late to realize this.

I read that in some societies, if you ended up not being able to feed yourself, they would bring you to your favorite tree and leave you there. If you ended back in camp you’d be welcomed. If you didn’t, that was your end. I found that remarkably comforting and peaceful.

Or they'll treat you with a daily oil bath and feed you tender coconut water ... until few days later your kidney's blow out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalaikoothal

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#128

Post by lukas099 »

kranke155 wrote: post #101
troupo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Death from hunger (esp. when you're frightened and don't understand what's happening) is neither comfortable nor comforting

Fascinating that you think someone with dementia would be suffering more from hunger then from their condition sapping away at them.

If I was starving to death, the acute sensation of hunger would override everything else in my mind.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#129

Post by thrance »

sarchertech wrote: post #60
mcdonje wrote: post #51

The sad demise of Robin Williams made me a believer of assisted suicide. The option to go out with dignity should be available to everyone. That said, there is a problem in at least some places where assisted suicide is available where it keeps getting recommended to disabled people who don't want to die. That needs to be solved. Seems like an easy solve. Just don't do it. There is a cost reduction incentive, though,…

That’s the problem. If there’s a financial incentive people will find way to push it. That’s my biggest concern about assisted suicide for an otherwise healthy person who just wants to avoid the inevitable decline (as in this case). There is a direct financial incentive for families to push people into this. The only way I can see to remove that would be to require that your estate can’t go to anyone who potentially…

Yet you don't see insurance companies hiring snipers to get rid of their oldest customers. Maybe the solution is to prosecute those who would push MAID too aggressively as we would those who push to suicide.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#130

Post by xpe »

jeffwass wrote: post #26
xpe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The sheer irony of your unwarranted pedantic critique of the usage of “next” is that all HN threaded comments, including yours, have a “next” link in their headers which clearly does NOT refer to unwritten future comments. Not sure why I bothered responding to a troll.

[flagged]
Post reply on HN