What are the reasons why nobody uses pypy?
Because in the real world, for code where performance is needed, you run the profiler and either find that the time is spent on I/O, or that the time is spent inside native code.
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Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
491–500 of 579 posts
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#492Earlier quoted context omitted.
Imports being slow is annoying, but only matters to short running code.
Many simple scripts at my work that more or less just argparse and fire off an HTTP request spend half a minute importing random stuff because of false deps and uncommon codepaths. For some unit tests it's 45 seconds, substantially longer than the time taken to run the test logic. In dev cycles most code is short-running.
> Many simple scripts at my work [...] For some unit tests it's 45 seconds
> I spend a lot of time rewriting the python logic in C++, which makes it 100x faster
Nice! Your workplace didn't care to pick a better tool for the job in the past, and it seems to not care what you're doing at present, if you have to spend time rewriting the stuff in C++, instead of picking Nim and calling it a day, in a day.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#493What are the reasons why nobody uses pypy?
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Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you haven't noticed, there is no evidence of your claims.
There's no evidence to disprove them either. Bots aren't necessarily aimed to promote "glorious motherland" directly, there are probably hundreds of people on a payroll searching for easy, popular targets to wreak havoc.
Paranoia. There is just as much evidence that the USA has influence operations in every country on the planet too.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ah New Coke… Oddly I liked new coke better. My most 80s possession is a new coke can with max headroom on it. They had both new and “classic” for a while co existing.
> Oddly I liked new coke better. Fun fact: so did most focus groups and (I think?) blind taste tests when it was just presented as a new drink, but they tended to be horrified by the idea of it actually replacing classic Coke. The problem with that switch was mostly psychological / cultural, not chemical. Also, Diet Coke, which remains quite popular, is still based on the New Coke formula except with the sweetener sw…
> The Coca-Cola Company has been working to increase Coke Zero's popularity, and it is now much more popular than it used to be, but I think Diet Coke continues to be more popular than Coke Zero even now.
This might be a per-country thing -- Coke Zero has always been more popular in Australia ever since it came out (it can be hard to find Diet Coke in vending machines and for single-bottle sales here). Of course, Coke (and Pepsi) can taste different in different countries but I would say the Aussie one tastes pretty similar to the American one.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no evidence to disprove them either. Bots aren't necessarily aimed to promote "glorious motherland" directly, there are probably hundreds of people on a payroll searching for easy, popular targets to wreak havoc.
Paranoia. There is just as much evidence that the USA has influence operations in every country on the planet too.
Whatever lets you sleep at night.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
You hope it doesn't ? > [Donald Knuth] firmly believes that having an unchanged system that will produce the same output now and in the future is more important than introducing new features This is such a breath of fresh air in a world where everything is considered obsolete after like 3 years. Our industry has a disease, an insatiable hunger for newness over completeness or correctness . There's no reason we can't…
> There's no reason we can't be writing code that lasts 100 years. Code is just math. In theory, yes. In practice, no, because code is not just math, it's math written in a language with an implementation designed to target specific computing hardware, and computing hardware keeps changing. You could have the complete source code of software written 70 years ago, and at best you would need to write new code to emulat…
> and computing hardware keeps changing.
Only if you can't reasonably buy a direct replacement. That might have been a bigger problem in the early days of computing where people spread themselves around, leaving a lot of business failures and thus defunct hardware, but nowadays we all usually settle on common architectures that are very likely to still be around in the distant future due to that mass adoption still providing strong incentive for someone to keep producing it.
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#498Python installation size over time: 170M python-3.6.15 183M python-3.7.17 197M python-3.8.20 206M python-3.9.24 218M python-3.10.19 331M python-3.11.14 362M python-3.12.12 377M python-3.13.8 406M python-3.14.0
With batteries included, growing should be a desired outcome.
Not always. See dead batteries: https://peps.python.org/pep-0594/
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Are there any serious technical reasons not to do it? Yes. First is startup time. REPL cycle being fast is a big advantage for development. From a business perspective, dev time is more expensive then compute time by orders of magnitude. Every time you make a change, you have to recompile the program. Meanwhile with regular python, you can literally develop during execution. Second is compatibility. Numpy and pytor…
Repl I get it. Possibly valid point. Yet I guess same issue are valid to node.js which seems much faster in many cases and still has valid dev experience. C compatibility / extension compatibility - nope. First, it is an issue of limited resources. Add more devs to pypy team and compatibility bugs gets fixed. Second, aren’t people writing C extensions due to python being slow? Make python fast - as pypy - and for som…
>C compatibility / extension compatibility - nope. First, it is an issue of limited resources.
No, its an issue of reinventing the wheel. Native code is native code. Numpy stuff isn't going to be faster running in pypy, neither is any of the ML stuff. Stuff like FastAPI or Uvicorn aren't going see much speed increase.
In the modern world, there is basically no need for middle ground performance. In the past, when you had single core processors, making things go fast was advantageous. Now, if you need to go fast, you most likely need to go REALLY fast, at which point just go full native. Otherwise, you are going to be slowed down by network calls and other factors.
So while PyPy is a cool projects that can be an optimization on top of regular python, its not worth while trying to make Python into something it will never be
Re: Python 3.14 is here. How fast is it?
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
Paranoia. There is just as much evidence that the USA has influence operations in every country on the planet too.
Whatever lets you sleep at night.
Oh, as if "the Russians are comin' to brainwash us all" doesn't keep you up at night.
Give it up. The Russians aren't coming for you. You're gunning for them.