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Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

viteplus.dev

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Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#51

Post by azangru »

boplicity wrote: post #39
whstl wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools. I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and chan…

If I stop working on a project for 3 years, will I still be able to compile it, without losing an unpredictablt amount of time to fixing the toolchain? If not, then its not really stable, is it?

> If I stop working on a project for 3 years, will I still be able to compile it

You will certainly be able to compile it. You might have hard time updating it though.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#52

Post by manniL »

Galanwe wrote: post #12

I don't get it. If I'm looking for a new webdev stack, I would obviously want something free, open source. A big "Request early access" followed by a contact form at the top of the landing page is an instant redflag of vendor locking, who would ever want that?

Keep in mind that this is a super early preview. It will be source-available when stable. And it will be free for the community, while companies will have to pay.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#54

Post by yurishimo »

yakkomajuri wrote: post #3

I guess this is similar to what Astral is doing on the Python side? As far as Astral goes, so far they've distributed all the tooling separately but it seems they might be going towards consolidation as well.

The Vite tooling is also available separately and is fully MIT open source. This "package" does the dirty work of tying the separate OSS packages together into a singular CLI/GUI tool.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#55

Post by jansan »

ownagefool wrote: post #33
0x696C6961 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying that we finally have a semi-stable toolchain (I disagree) and the correct path forward is to change it all again? Lol I think the cynicism is very much justified.

To be fair, the idea of the tools being standardized behind a single command like golang is nice, but this is largely what it all comes down to. "Vite+ will be source-available and offers a generous free tier." I'm also a developer ( sometimes ) and we need to eat. However, for me these tools are too low of a level of he stack to monetize, so I'll probably stick with my collection of free tools.

Evan You wrote on Twitter that source code will be accessible to everyone, but not under a full permissible license. He also wrote that they have no plans to sell any code licenses.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#56

Post by AlfeG »

whstl wrote: post #20
skydhash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit. The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in…

What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools. I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and chan…

For us non stable things were sass and Tailwind. Lost a lot of dev work just to upgrade those with no visible benefit at all.

Everything else is smooth and silk

Ohh, yes eslint 8 => 9 migration were also a big pain to handle.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#57

Post by yurishimo »

romanovcode wrote: post #34
nunobrito wrote: post #29

Don't get me wrong but at this point you might as well just use Java instead of javascript to build web pages. Vite is basically replicating what one would expect as normal behaviour from the JDK + IDE has been doing since years. Javascript was meant to be readable for an open web, nowadays it is compiled into a puddle of text. It is OK to reinvent the wheel, it just doesn't look much better than the old one.

Using Java/.NET with server side rendered HTML + webpack/react for dynamic components (which nearly are non-existent with modern CSS). Works great.

It entirely depends on the type of application you are building. Boring CRUD app that is rarely updated? Yea, server rendering is probably enough.

But the requirements of "modern" software are always changing. Sure, the static table might be enough, but then some business person says, "It sure would be nice if I could check a little box in the table row or assign this user here..." and now you're adding little JS hacks. Again, not impossible, but at a certain scale, the ability to have infinite access to client driven reactivity becomes a real business empowerment.

Given the interest in the JS working group to add reactive Signals to the core language, I suspect this will only become _more_ prevalent in the future. Maybe it will need less input from frameworks to do the same work and we can move back towards using built-in browser APIs, but the programming model itself works really well (so much so that SwiftUI uses a very similar reactive UI programming model).

Again, I don't disagree with your point, just at a certain scale, it becomes a huge hassle to maintain. If people are going to use these tools and frameworks anyway, it helps the entire web to make them more efficient.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#58

Post by yurishimo »

johnnypangs wrote: post #6

Ehhhhh... what does this mean for the open source versions of all these libs? You could interpret some of the graphs as vite oss isn't getting rolldown. That would be disappointing but still okay.

Vite OSS is getting Rolldown; it will be part of Vite from version 8 onward. Rolldown itself is also 100% OSS.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#59

Post by nunobrito »

romanovcode wrote: post #34
nunobrito wrote: post #29

Don't get me wrong but at this point you might as well just use Java instead of javascript to build web pages. Vite is basically replicating what one would expect as normal behaviour from the JDK + IDE has been doing since years. Javascript was meant to be readable for an open web, nowadays it is compiled into a puddle of text. It is OK to reinvent the wheel, it just doesn't look much better than the old one.

Using Java/.NET with server side rendered HTML + webpack/react for dynamic components (which nearly are non-existent with modern CSS). Works great.

I try but continue to be enable of developing complex code in javascript.

It is so different when compared to Java/.NET where organizing large code blocks and making sure the pieces work well together is so easy. Very frustrating as there is so much that can be done on a browser but hampered by a development environment not much different from only using a text editor.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#60

Post by diiiimaaaa »

I recently had to setup another complex monorepo with eslint/vitest/vite/tsup/turborepo and it was such a pain. All the time either eslint breaks for some file, or some build breaks because of some obscure thing in tsconfig, turborepo behaves in a weird way, adding new packages is a pain, etc.

Hopefully Evan can pull this off and we have simpler initial setup.

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