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Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

viteplus.dev

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Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#31

Post by debazel »

norman784 wrote: post #5
rk06 wrote: post #2

The Unified toolchain is an extremely ambitious project. when Rome announced their plan for unified toolchain, I expected it to fail as the next HN reader. and turned out to be right. Bun is also attempting it. Thye have made tremendous progress but they are also competing against node, and thus I don't expect to for bun to go mainstream. However, despite the difficulties, I strongly believe that Vite+ can achieve it…

Well, Rome failed because they run out of money while the project weren't finished yet. While Vite+ seems to have most of the things done already, so I'd consider it a success for now, what is left to see if that the companies using Vite already are willing to pay for Vite+.

Rome also failed because it was attempting to build everything (transpiler/bundler/linter/etc) from scratch.

It was also unfortunately timed. When they started they were competing against webpack, but right around the start of the project compilers written in more performant languages like ESBuld and SWC start to take off and out compete Rome before it even got off the ground.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#32

Post by Cthulhu_ »

CaptainOfCoit wrote: post #19
Galanwe wrote: post #12

I don't get it. If I'm looking for a new webdev stack, I would obviously want something free, open source. A big "Request early access" followed by a contact form at the top of the landing page is an instant redflag of vendor locking, who would ever want that?

It's also explicitly not FOSS, "Vite+ will be source-available" it says on the page so effectively proprietary for all intents and purposes. A free pricing plan will be in place that will initially be very generous, but as time goes on and the business will need more money, it'll slowly get worse and worse. Eventually you'll need to migrate away or cough up serious money. So yeah, not sure who'd go for this.

Enterprise support. If an enterprise can spend less time on tooling setup and maintenance they can spend more on product development.

Mind you we use NX at the moment and that was quick and easy enough to set up with no major issues for years now, so I wonder what the USP of this tool is. We also use Vite in some projects in combination with NX so maybe this is mainly aimed at that.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#33

Post by ownagefool »

0x696C6961 wrote: post #13
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

So you're saying that we finally have a semi-stable toolchain (I disagree) and the correct path forward is to change it all again? Lol I think the cynicism is very much justified.

To be fair, the idea of the tools being standardized behind a single command like golang is nice, but this is largely what it all comes down to.

"Vite+ will be source-available and offers a generous free tier."

I'm also a developer ( sometimes ) and we need to eat. However, for me these tools are too low of a level of he stack to monetize, so I'll probably stick with my collection of free tools.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#34

Post by romanovcode »

nunobrito wrote: post #29

Don't get me wrong but at this point you might as well just use Java instead of javascript to build web pages. Vite is basically replicating what one would expect as normal behaviour from the JDK + IDE has been doing since years. Javascript was meant to be readable for an open web, nowadays it is compiled into a puddle of text. It is OK to reinvent the wheel, it just doesn't look much better than the old one.

Using Java/.NET with server side rendered HTML + webpack/react for dynamic components (which nearly are non-existent with modern CSS).

Works great.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#35

Post by EvanYou »

joaohaas wrote: post #23
whstl wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cynicism is several years out of date. The current dominant toolchain has been very stable for years now, and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt/Gulp/Bower/Browserify/Parcel/Snowpack/Turbopack/Babel/etc/etc. The only problem is that NOW there are too many separate different tools that aren't bundlers, so in addition to Vite one also has to configure Prettier, Eslint, Vitest, Typescript,…

>and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt... You do know that Vite uses a lot of these behind the scenes right? Vite in general has much better defaults so that you don't have to configure them most of the time, but anything a bit out of the box will still require messing with the configs extensively. Not like OPs Vite+ changes anything regarding that.

Vite+ is built on top of the Rust stack (Rolldown / Oxc) developed by the same team and uses none of these.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#36

Post by EvanYou »

whstl wrote: post #27
joaohaas wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and is much better than the mess of Webpack/Rollup/Brunch/Grunt... You do know that Vite uses a lot of these behind the scenes right? Vite in general has much better defaults so that you don't have to configure them most of the time, but anything a bit out of the box will still require messing with the configs extensively. Not like OPs Vite+ changes anything regarding that.

Not "a lot of those". It used Rollup. And it does so transparently, while the alternative, Rolldown, was being finished. To me this sounds like a more than acceptable compromise in the interim.

Not even Rollup. Vite+ uses Rolldown which is also developed from the ground up by VoidZero.

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#39

Post by boplicity »

whstl wrote: post #20
skydhash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit. The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in…

What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools. I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and chan…

If I stop working on a project for 3 years, will I still be able to compile it, without losing an unpredictablt amount of time to fixing the toolchain? If not, then its not really stable, is it?

Re: Vite+ – Unified toolchain for the web

#40

Post by cluckindan »

whstl wrote: post #20
skydhash wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, I don't want unified tools. I want stable ones. I'm fine with using a separate linter/formatter/transpiler/bundler/..., but why can't they just stay stable for a bit. The only two tools I like in the JS world is `yarn` and `prettier`. They're focused and do what they do well. But you add eslint and any of the others and their configuration is a full fledged turing machine. Even autotools feels nice in…

What's not stable about Vite, ESLint, Typescript, Prettier? Apart from Vite itself, those have been standards for 8-10 years, and Vite itself has successfully replaced a huge mess of other tools. I agree that ESLint can become a mess, which is why I'm ok with a new competitor that doesn't require the extra configuration. Sure: they're also replacing Prettier (unnecessary) but everyone can keep using Prettier and chan…

ESLint and stable do not belong in the same sentence.
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