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I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

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Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#41

Post by mcintyre1994 »

graeme wrote: post #16

It should be noted that Durov does not criticize Russia, his country of citizenship and the center of much of his userbase. The Russian internet is far more controlled than the Western internet, with penalties up to and including arrest and death for expressing the wrong views. Russia also is actively invading Europe and sponsoring vast network of troll accounts which poison the discourse on the internet in Western c…

Nor does he criticise the UAE where he moved to, where of course he gave up free speech for tax benefits. I don’t blame him of course, I’d be terrified to criticise the government if I lived there too.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#42

Post by kgeist »

graeme wrote: post #16

It should be noted that Durov does not criticize Russia, his country of citizenship and the center of much of his userbase. The Russian internet is far more controlled than the Western internet, with penalties up to and including arrest and death for expressing the wrong views. Russia also is actively invading Europe and sponsoring vast network of troll accounts which poison the discourse on the internet in Western c…

Durov left Russia in 2014 after he refused fo cooperate with the authorities (they asked to hand over personal info about pro-Ukrainian groups on VK), saying:

>Unfortunately, it's impossible to run an online business in this country. I'm afraid there's no way back for me - especially after I publicly refused to cooperate with the authorities.

What I'm seeing here is that for a lot of liberal Russians (including Durov), the West was this ideal, beacon of freedom, and many are disappointed to see it moving in the same direction as Russia. For Russia, it's obvious that free speech doesn't exist there, nothing new to say.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#43

Post by Grazester »

seydor wrote: post #24

The freedom interlude was a byproduct of the end of the cold war. We lived a rare period of trust between people across the world. Now we need to find a new framework beyond national trust but I don't have ideas. Durov himself lives in an unfree country

What unfree county is that? He certainly doesn't live in Russia if that is what you are alluding to.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#45

Post by lnsru »

ahofmann wrote: post #20
Aeolun wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That cynicism is one the explicit goals of Russian propaganda. I don’t need Russia to tell me to be cynical of the western political situation.

Well, do you? Where does the cynicism against the political situation come from? I think europes reality is much better, than the poisoned discourse makes us believe.

I am in Germany and I don’t need troll farms to poison my worldview. It’s enough to go to the local school where swimming pool is closed, because there is no money. It’s enough to go to all hands meeting at work to get new location in best cost country presented. It’s enough to try finding specialized doctor and realizing, that my public health insurance allows me to see the doctor in April 2026. I just don’t think it’s the way it should be in a first world country. Obviously something does not work despite people actively voting in every election.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#46

Post by mcintyre1994 »

Grazester wrote: post #43
seydor wrote: post #24

The freedom interlude was a byproduct of the end of the cold war. We lived a rare period of trust between people across the world. Now we need to find a new framework beyond national trust but I don't have ideas. Durov himself lives in an unfree country

What unfree county is that? He certainly doesn't live in Russia if that is what you are alluding to.

He lives in the UAE.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#47

Post by rockskon »

NedF wrote: post #19
SilverElfin wrote: post #3

This is Pavel Durov, the founder of Telegram. And he’s totally correct. The Internet was much better before the 2000s and the social media era. And when the people who remember it aren’t around, those remaining won’t have any idea that they’re missing something. He’s also totally correct in calling out the obvious lunge towards authoritarianism from European democracies - this must be stopped immediately: > Once-free…

> The Internet was much better before the 2000s An embarrassing fiction, it was junk. More people are on VPNs now than were on the internet pre-2000 It's true there were ideas and principals in a wild west the younger generation will never know was the default. You could go out and have a battle with Injun's or see a lynching but it was 99.9% dust and hard work herding cows. The internet now is a megacity, everything…

There's relentless distractions. Being relentlessly harrassed by so many things trying to steal your attention and time.

The Internet truly was better when people had more control over their own experience in it. Now the modern equivalent of pop-up ads are on every blog begging you to sign up for their newsletter and you're severely restricted in how you can even interact with the handful of popular websites leftover.

Some things are better now, sure. But some are definitely worse with the control over information exposure that we've lost.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#48

Post by Muromec »

kgeist wrote: post #42
graeme wrote: post #16

It should be noted that Durov does not criticize Russia, his country of citizenship and the center of much of his userbase. The Russian internet is far more controlled than the Western internet, with penalties up to and including arrest and death for expressing the wrong views. Russia also is actively invading Europe and sponsoring vast network of troll accounts which poison the discourse on the internet in Western c…

Durov left Russia in 2014 after he refused fo cooperate with the authorities (they asked to hand over personal info about pro-Ukrainian groups on VK), saying: >Unfortunately, it's impossible to run an online business in this country. I'm afraid there's no way back for me - especially after I publicly refused to cooperate with the authorities. What I'm seeing here is that for a lot of liberal Russians (including Durov…

РЗН

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#49

Post by kgeist »

yatsyk wrote: post #38
kgeist wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Russia has basically never had freedom of speech, except for a brief period in the 1990s, so it contributes nothing to his thesis in the tweet that "once-free countries are introducing dystopian measures."

If he had written that Western Europe is moving toward China’s model, I would have had no questions about his tweet and would have fully supported it. As I understand it, Durov doesn’t agree with your statement — you can check point 5 of his 2014 manifesto [1] [1] https://globalvoices.org/2014/03/13/pavel-durovs-seven-reaso...

>2014

That was before the Kremlin fully launched its repressive measures against the Internet, and before he was forced to leave Russia for refusing to cooperate with the authorities.

Re: I'm turning 41, but I don't feel like celebrating

#50

Post by siva7 »

graeme wrote: post #16

It should be noted that Durov does not criticize Russia, his country of citizenship and the center of much of his userbase. The Russian internet is far more controlled than the Western internet, with penalties up to and including arrest and death for expressing the wrong views. Russia also is actively invading Europe and sponsoring vast network of troll accounts which poison the discourse on the internet in Western c…

Pavel can't be trusted in any way. Russia is at war with Europe, russians are living in a bloody dictatorship and there is zero freedom of speech in Russia. Yet his tweet is only about western democracies in Europe - exactly what you would expect from a Putin puppet.
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