Gifted children are special needs children • Hacker News Board

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#141

Post by jlawson » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 12:02 AM UTC

teiferer wrote: post #96

jlawson wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The belief that every child has the same natural ability is as radical. It's radical because goes against all evidence, experience, and common sense - it is ideology taken to a puritanical extreme. There is no more extreme position one can take.

Though I don't think that's the argument. Even those advocating for the end of the program for gifted kids don't believe that all children have the same natural ability. Maybe some of them do, but the main arguments are different and are not actually that "radical". And even if that was the argument, the term was used in the context of "radical egalitarianism". So, the argument doesn't automatically transfer to such…

Ending all school programs that separate children by ability is the most radically egalitarian position possible, even in theory. There is no more extreme position one can take.

Given that, there's nothing else to save the word for. This is the limit; the max. So if radical refers to anything at all, it refers to this.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#142

Post by teiferer » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 6:52 AM UTC

jlawson wrote: post #141

teiferer wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though I don't think that's the argument. Even those advocating for the end of the program for gifted kids don't believe that all children have the same natural ability. Maybe some of them do, but the main arguments are different and are not actually that "radical". And even if that was the argument, the term was used in the context of "radical egalitarianism". So, the argument doesn't automatically transfer to such…

Ending all school programs that separate children by ability is the most radically egalitarian position possible, even in theory. There is no more extreme position one can take. Given that, there's nothing else to save the word for. This is the limit; the max. So if radical refers to anything at all, it refers to this.

> Ending all school programs that separate children by ability is the most radically egalitarian position possible, even in theory. There is no more extreme position one can take.

There are many things I can imagine that are much more radical than this. Everybody has to live the same, wear the same, eat the same, think the same. That's pretty insanely dystopian for sure, but much more egalitarian than barely mixing kids of different ability in the same classroom.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#143

Post by surfmike » Thu, Oct 09, 2025, 9:02 AM UTC

teiferer wrote: post #16

surfmike wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Kindergarten were just play based schooling then I’d agree with you. But there is an academic component, for example learning to read, and students abilities can be radically different.

You don't need kindergarten to teach reading. Mine didn't and I did fine. (Obtained a Ph.D. degree later in life.)

Perhaps, but then surely reading should be part of the curriculum at least by by grade 1 or 2 then?

But if reading is part of the curriculum (which it generally is for K and certainly for the years after) then it’s just the reality that there will be big differences in ability and trying to have everyone go at the same pace doesn’t serve either early or late readers.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#144

Post by greygoo222 » Tue, Oct 14, 2025, 9:24 PM UTC

bccdee wrote: post #124

greygoo222 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affluent Black or Asian immigrants are typically high-skilled immigrants, a program that, by definition, screens for merit. Merit is heritable.

"Merit" is not a singular monolithic quality. Highly skilled immigrants have many meritorious qualities, like education and professional skills, which are not heritable and which cost money to acquire. Between an affluent child of average intellect and a clever child of modest means, both living in the developing world, the rich kid is much more likely to end up in America than the poor kid is. Gifted programs seek t…

Childhood intelligence is not exactly the same thing as the skills that allow you to immigrate, but it is highly, highly correlated. You can't just say "merit isn't a singular quality", you have to prove that the effect you see is due to wealth differences rather than merit differences.

Re: Gifted children are special needs children

#145

Post by greygoo222 » Tue, Oct 14, 2025, 9:26 PM UTC

em-bee wrote: post #117

greygoo222 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went to a Montessori kindergarten and I still got sent to a psychologist for acting out because I wasn't challenged enough. What I needed was a more rigorous curriculum and peers that were on the same level.

then your teachers weren't trained well enough. unfortunately montessori is not a protected term, so any school can call themselves montessori, whether they actually do the montessori curriculum or a half assed version of it or none at all.

This sounds like a No True Scotsman. What's the evidence that "real" Montessori does work well for children of all academic levels, when placed in the same class?