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Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

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Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#51

Post by nawgz »

its-summertime wrote: post #28
byearthithatius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things change so fast in web dev. Is it so hard to find a pattern that works and stick to it? I think the constant rewrites are honestly _worse_ for dev experience and security. Nobody knows whats standard and docs become outdated so quick a lot of frameworks just have outdated docs or multiple versions that contradict eachother.

Javascript is not a language that is good for making basic comprehensive abstractions in. Typescript is not a language that is good for making basic comprehensive abstractions in. JSX is not a language that is good for making basic comprehensive abstractions in.

This is quite a large set of things to hand wave away with no additional justification. Makes it sound more like personal bias than meaningful insight

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#52

Post by SeanAnderson »

Ameo wrote: post #48

Svelte is definitely still my favorite way to build web apps in 2025. I wasn't (and still am not) the biggest fan of the new Runes syntax, but I've gotten used to it, and it doesn't really hurt my productivity or get in my way that much. There's definitely an ecosystem gap compared to React, but there are still lots of really good components and frameworks out there. For example, there's a native Svelte version of IB…

Of note - Svelte publishes documents specifically intended for LLM consumption, https://svelte.dev/docs/llms

Making my LLM aware of these documents significantly mitigated issues I had with adopting Svelte 5 syntax.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#53

Post by byearthithatius »

thousand_nights wrote: post #46
byearthithatius wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things change so fast in web dev. Is it so hard to find a pattern that works and stick to it? I think the constant rewrites are honestly _worse_ for dev experience and security. Nobody knows whats standard and docs become outdated so quick a lot of frameworks just have outdated docs or multiple versions that contradict eachother.

React has been pretty stable for many years now and is almost ubiquitous. Also, I'm not a huge fan of synthetic benchmarks like in the article such as "render a static list of 25000 elements". This never happens in the real world, you would use some implementation of a virtual list instead.

Main React has been pretty stable for a few years but the ecosystem to serve React bundles has not been.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#54

Post by landl0rd »

byearthithatius wrote: post #33
icemelt8 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ReactJS is pretty consistent since last 5 years and probably won't be changing for next 5 years.

But how many use _just_ React now? There is a whole stack that 90% of YC companies use: Node, pnpm, Next, React, doing SSR by default. Idk about it all. Most of the time when I ask why they do SSR they can't tell me a valid reason. Their bundle sizes are so big for what the apps do.

I've used plain react for a few things in the past few years. I strongly prefer it to next/nuxt/all this other stuff. Preact and an understanding of best practices can make it fairly performant with a more or less drop-in replacement if you're willing to sacrifice compatibility with absolutely all the ecosystem.

I still prefer svelte but it's less mature and universally-known. React is still a pretty good choice if you need something that will more or less work and that anyone can write.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#55

Post by fancyswimtime »

ergocoder wrote: post #36
herrkanin wrote: post #12

I'm so sick of these performance benchmarks. I understand it's easy to spin them up to show that one framework is faster than another, but in general all these frameworks are fast enough for 99.9% of use cases. Where frameworks lack today, in my opinion, are in providing the right tools further optimize the UX of interacting with web sites. It's a constant struggle of loading spinners and flicker and loss of scroll p…

> I'm so sick of these performance benchmarks. I understand it's easy to spin them up to show that one framework is faster than another, but in general all these frameworks are fast enough for 99.9% of use cases. Yes, any framework is fast enough. At this point, everybody probably knows already. Nobody would ever say React is not appropriate because it's slower than Svelte. No sane person would ever argue for a migra…

yes because these benchmarks are not akin to the real world; rendering a large list of data? You'd use a virtualized list etc

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#57

Post by christophilus »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #41
icemelt8 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ReactJS is pretty consistent since last 5 years and probably won't be changing for next 5 years.

Nobody uses plain reactjs anymore.

What do you mean? I use Preact, but I use “plain Preact”.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#58

Post by piskov »

byearthithatius wrote: post #26
SeanAnderson wrote: post #4

It's worth pointing out this article is discussing Svelte 3.x when the current version is Svelte 5.x and has some significant departures from previous versions (i.e. the introduction of runes) I haven't finished reading the article yet. I am a fan of Svelte, though, and have switched to using it by default for new projects - coming from a React background.

Things change so fast in web dev. Is it so hard to find a pattern that works and stick to it? I think the constant rewrites are honestly _worse_ for dev experience and security. Nobody knows whats standard and docs become outdated so quick a lot of frameworks just have outdated docs or multiple versions that contradict eachother.

My nation-wide C# Silverlight app lasted almost 12 years. And it had grid, animations, what have you in 2010 better than most html5 in 2018. Not to mention tooling.

And you know what? No matter the browser, no matter the OS it all worked and rendered the same.

Probably Adobe Flash was like that also.

First app we rewrote to AngularJS. You know what happened to it. So then we rewrote it to Vue.

The same effing app just to keep the stack “modern”.

I don’t know what is wrong with all these people.

God I wish something like Silverlight returned in a way that is mobile battery friendly.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#59

Post by sixtyj »

byearthithatius wrote: post #26
SeanAnderson wrote: post #4

It's worth pointing out this article is discussing Svelte 3.x when the current version is Svelte 5.x and has some significant departures from previous versions (i.e. the introduction of runes) I haven't finished reading the article yet. I am a fan of Svelte, though, and have switched to using it by default for new projects - coming from a React background.

Things change so fast in web dev. Is it so hard to find a pattern that works and stick to it? I think the constant rewrites are honestly _worse_ for dev experience and security. Nobody knows whats standard and docs become outdated so quick a lot of frameworks just have outdated docs or multiple versions that contradict eachother.

Yes, don’t tell me this. I have to rewrite PHP based website because a framework doesn’t work with new PHP anymore. Back compatibility sucks in many software.
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