Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

chuniversiteit.nl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 205 posts

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#31

Post by cheema33 »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #13

I'm no longer a fan of using any front-end libraries at all en lieu of just using standard event listeners and web components, but in their defense, by the time that you're creating or updating that many elements, most developers are backing out of the framework anyway. It's the primary reason virtual table libraries exist.

> I'm no longer a fan of using any front-end libraries at all en lieu of just using standard event listeners and web components

You can get away without using frontend frameworks for small and simple projects. However, for large and complex projects you will struggle. For example, try building Google Docs without a frontend library. You will struggle even if you have an army of developers at your disposal. In fact, with a larger team, a library/framework helps standardize things.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#33

Post by byearthithatius »

icemelt8 wrote: post #29
byearthithatius wrote: post #21

The fact this is already outdated by more recent Svelte releases which changed things drastically is exactly my problem with the modern JS space. So fast moving and most of it is still doing JQuery like reactivity. I am probably just not smart enough to get it, but it reminds me of the constant seemingly pointless rewrites I see in companies. Figure out what works and keep it, is that so hard? Why can other languages…

ReactJS is pretty consistent since last 5 years and probably won't be changing for next 5 years.

But how many use _just_ React now? There is a whole stack that 90% of YC companies use: Node, pnpm, Next, React, doing SSR by default. Idk about it all. Most of the time when I ask why they do SSR they can't tell me a valid reason. Their bundle sizes are so big for what the apps do.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#34

Post by SeanAnderson »

icemelt8 wrote: post #29
byearthithatius wrote: post #21

The fact this is already outdated by more recent Svelte releases which changed things drastically is exactly my problem with the modern JS space. So fast moving and most of it is still doing JQuery like reactivity. I am probably just not smart enough to get it, but it reminds me of the constant seemingly pointless rewrites I see in companies. Figure out what works and keep it, is that so hard? Why can other languages…

ReactJS is pretty consistent since last 5 years and probably won't be changing for next 5 years.

Didn't React 19 introduce a compiler in an attempt to provide auto-memoization? That feels pretty substantial.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#35

Post by byearthithatius »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #34
icemelt8 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ReactJS is pretty consistent since last 5 years and probably won't be changing for next 5 years.

Didn't React 19 introduce a compiler in an attempt to provide auto-memoization? That feels pretty substantial.

The fact we got to a point of auto-memoization on every reactive function is crazy to me. How is that not prematurely optimizing? I already saw people doing useMemo on shit that shouldn't be getting called repeatedly with the same value. So maybe it is better to let a compiler decide, although I am curious how it knows.

EDIT: if its pure (not reactive to any other variable but other variables may react to it) they will auto memoize I guess to avoid their own reactivity engine doing a bunch of useless shit when no value was actually updated. Correct me here if I am wrong.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#36

Post by ergocoder »

herrkanin wrote: post #12

I'm so sick of these performance benchmarks. I understand it's easy to spin them up to show that one framework is faster than another, but in general all these frameworks are fast enough for 99.9% of use cases. Where frameworks lack today, in my opinion, are in providing the right tools further optimize the UX of interacting with web sites. It's a constant struggle of loading spinners and flicker and loss of scroll p…

> I'm so sick of these performance benchmarks. I understand it's easy to spin them up to show that one framework is faster than another, but in general all these frameworks are fast enough for 99.9% of use cases.

Yes, any framework is fast enough. At this point, everybody probably knows already. Nobody would ever say React is not appropriate because it's slower than Svelte. No sane person would ever argue for a migration from React to Svelte based on this benchmark.

But being against the performance benchmark is such a weird take. It's so strange that many times there are hidden agendas.

Many times because a person advocates for X over Y at Company Z. Then, there's some random benchmark saying Y is faster. Now the person needs some way to cope. The best way is to refute the benchmark in some ways, but this would take a huge amount of time and effort. The second best way is to simply say "it doesn't matter. I hate this useless benchmark. There are more important problems to solve!"... as if everyone on the planet has to always solve the most important problem first ... only one problem and no more. Haha

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#37

Post by [deleted] »

SeanAnderson wrote: post #34
icemelt8 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ReactJS is pretty consistent since last 5 years and probably won't be changing for next 5 years.

Didn't React 19 introduce a compiler in an attempt to provide auto-memoization? That feels pretty substantial.

[deleted]

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#38

Post by some_guy_nobel »

codegeek wrote: post #15

Did Svelte gain the adoption like React and Vue ? I am not sure how mature the ecosystem is. I am always wary of using things in production that have not gained significant adoption.

From what I recall, they nuked the ergonomics/what made Svelte great with the runes api (Svelte 4?) and most people begrudgingly switched over to React, because, why not at that point.

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#39

Post by IshKebab »

herrkanin wrote: post #12

I'm so sick of these performance benchmarks. I understand it's easy to spin them up to show that one framework is faster than another, but in general all these frameworks are fast enough for 99.9% of use cases. Where frameworks lack today, in my opinion, are in providing the right tools further optimize the UX of interacting with web sites. It's a constant struggle of loading spinners and flicker and loss of scroll p…

Yeah I agree, these benchmarks are basically meaningless. E.g. they acclaim Vue's binding based approach as being faster, but it also leads to spaghetti code. React was specifically designed to avoid that so you can build big apps that aren't buggy.

Also isn't Preact meant to be a faster option if you really need performance?

Re: Svelte’s characteristics that likely contribute most to improved performance

#40

Post by wartijn_ »

iammrpayments wrote: post #3

I wonder why the article used old versions of React and Svelte? It is using React 17 and Svelte 3.

Really old version of Angular as well. The article uses Angular 11, the latest version is 20 (Angular has a new major version every 6 months).
Post reply on HN