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3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

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Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#81

Post by cyanydeez »

ninininino wrote: post #62
siliconc0w wrote: post #41

I don't think most people understand that the damage from PFAS is generational and cumulative. You can isolate zebrafish, expose the first generation, and you'll see abnormalities generations later even those those fish were never exposed. That is their legacy - it's civilization-level harm.

I've been struggling to understand why people care more about Gaza, Ukraine, BLM, or trans bathrooms than issues like PFAS proliferation and ultimately came to the conclusion that people really just don't care about hypothetical future generations as much as the present. You can point and say "look, this action doesn't affect you much and just makes a 0.01% difference, but it will effect 100,000 future generations of…

Well, people do care about PFAS, global warming, environmental degradation...it's just htey've decided the solution is _depopulation_. They're fighting over the very carrying capacity of an earth that no ones going to fix.

So, like, you realy think israel, russia, america, china, india are all flirting heavily with fascism because of their religion, nationalism, isolationism? Or is it more likely they're trying to isolate themselves from humanity to reduce the overall social costs.

Biollionaires out there building their bunkers, and here we are...

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#82

Post by j4coh »

usefulcat wrote: post #56
ck2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

skiers have been putting teflon wax on their skis for decades now it's in the snow, ground, and water-supply forever

According to the linked Veritasium video, Teflon is not directly problematic, it’s the chemicals used to manufacture Teflon that are the problem.

Veritasium seems to be frequently wrong or at least incomplete. I empathise, it’s hard to make definitive statements like that, but maybe at some point it’s better not to if you’re not sure and more about entertainment than anything else.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#83

Post by bossyTeacher »

lm28469 wrote: post #35
pengaru wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all the shit you dump/burn ends up in your food or water eventually but most that shit doesn't survive the journey intact, being out in the elements and bombarded by the sun isn't kind to most things hence the focus on "forever chemicals"

But still a lot of things do, pesticides following the rain cycles is a good example. We're killing the biodiversity and ourselves with it. We already almost entirely rely on synthetically amending fields with petrol byproducts to feed ourselves, tomorrow we might have to manually pollinate crops when insects won't be enough to do the job. PFAS are a problem, co2 is a problem, but we have dozens of other very big pro…

> We already almost entirely rely on synthetically amending fields with petrol byproducts to feed ourselves

elaborate please

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#84

Post by stronglikedan »

ninininino wrote: post #62
siliconc0w wrote: post #41

I don't think most people understand that the damage from PFAS is generational and cumulative. You can isolate zebrafish, expose the first generation, and you'll see abnormalities generations later even those those fish were never exposed. That is their legacy - it's civilization-level harm.

I've been struggling to understand why people care more about Gaza, Ukraine, BLM, or trans bathrooms than issues like PFAS proliferation and ultimately came to the conclusion that people really just don't care about hypothetical future generations as much as the present. You can point and say "look, this action doesn't affect you much and just makes a 0.01% difference, but it will effect 100,000 future generations of…

It's possible to care about more than one thing at a time.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#85

Post by immibis »

ruined wrote: post #27
Nasrudith wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to arrest grandma for owning Enron stock?

if LLCs didn't exist, clearly the stock market would operate differently would Enron have been Enron if it wasn't an LLC?

Enron (like all publicly traded US companies) was a C-Corp, but that's a technicality.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#86

Post by tremon »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #83
lm28469 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still a lot of things do, pesticides following the rain cycles is a good example. We're killing the biodiversity and ourselves with it. We already almost entirely rely on synthetically amending fields with petrol byproducts to feed ourselves, tomorrow we might have to manually pollinate crops when insects won't be enough to do the job. PFAS are a problem, co2 is a problem, but we have dozens of other very big pro…

> We already almost entirely rely on synthetically amending fields with petrol byproducts to feed ourselves elaborate please

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

> Nearly 50% of the nitrogen found in human tissues originated from the Haber–Bosch process. Thus, the Haber process [enabled] the global population to increase from 1.6 billion in 1900 to 7.7 billion by November 2018.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#87

Post by jancsika »

ninininino wrote: post #62
siliconc0w wrote: post #41

I don't think most people understand that the damage from PFAS is generational and cumulative. You can isolate zebrafish, expose the first generation, and you'll see abnormalities generations later even those those fish were never exposed. That is their legacy - it's civilization-level harm.

I've been struggling to understand why people care more about Gaza, Ukraine, BLM, or trans bathrooms than issues like PFAS proliferation and ultimately came to the conclusion that people really just don't care about hypothetical future generations as much as the present. You can point and say "look, this action doesn't affect you much and just makes a 0.01% difference, but it will effect 100,000 future generations of…

Your argument doesn't make much sense.

Short term changes in Gaza/Ukraine/PFAS proliferation will all have very little effect on the current daily lives of most Americans.

But those same short terms changes in all of the above will have massive changes in the future of most Americans.

E.g., if public pressure had prevented the U.S. from invading Iraq on March 20th, 2003, not much would have changed for Americans on March 21st, 2003. But by the end of the war, that would be over $1 trillion that would have been spent differently by the U.S. government. You apparently like statistical estimates-- tell me how much of that $1 trillion you estimate would have gone to research grants for PFAS proliferation risks and/or alternative technologies over a 20-year period.

And that's just the opportunity cost. With Gaza and Ukraine there is further escalation of weapons use and drone tech, damage to the Chernobyl sarcophagus, potential use of tactical nukes, endless appetite for incorporating AI into war and mass surveillance... the list goes on and on.

It just cannot be overstated how wrong it is to blithely assume that focus on current events is somehow short term thinking while armchair quarterbacking PFAS proliferation 100,000 generations into the future is somehow more consequential and erudite.

Edit: change "stated" to "overstated" (hehe)

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#88

Post by SpicyUme »

tristor wrote: post #71
leobg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What have you done in your own home? I’d be curious to know.

> What have you done in your own home? I’d be curious to know. I've gotten rid of anything in my kitchen that I can that contains PFAS or is produced with PFAS or PFOAs. I use cast iron or stainless steel cookware, glass and silicone only for things that cannot be made of stainless steel. I've more or less eliminated plastics as much as possible from the kitchen. Unfortunately, I can't necessarily do that with food p…

How do you deal with running electricity through the house? This is not meant to be a fully serious question, but I'm replacing old wires in my home currently and it doesn't escape my attention that PFAS added to the insulation makes the new wiring easier to use and possibly safer from a fire perspective. I'm not certain about this but pulling cloth wrapper wires out of the ceiling makes me think where such chemicals have been used. I know I buy precrimped jumper wires with a teflon coating for work. I'm certain some people strip them with a heated tool. And I certainly melted some insulation while soldering them as a teenager.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#89

Post by NetMageSCW »

bossyTeacher wrote: post #83
lm28469 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But still a lot of things do, pesticides following the rain cycles is a good example. We're killing the biodiversity and ourselves with it. We already almost entirely rely on synthetically amending fields with petrol byproducts to feed ourselves, tomorrow we might have to manually pollinate crops when insects won't be enough to do the job. PFAS are a problem, co2 is a problem, but we have dozens of other very big pro…

> We already almost entirely rely on synthetically amending fields with petrol byproducts to feed ourselves elaborate please

I assume that means we have to use fertilizer to ensure we can produce enough food crop.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#90

Post by tristor »

SpicyUme wrote: post #88
tristor wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What have you done in your own home? I’d be curious to know. I've gotten rid of anything in my kitchen that I can that contains PFAS or is produced with PFAS or PFOAs. I use cast iron or stainless steel cookware, glass and silicone only for things that cannot be made of stainless steel. I've more or less eliminated plastics as much as possible from the kitchen. Unfortunately, I can't necessarily do that with food p…

How do you deal with running electricity through the house? This is not meant to be a fully serious question, but I'm replacing old wires in my home currently and it doesn't escape my attention that PFAS added to the insulation makes the new wiring easier to use and possibly safer from a fire perspective. I'm not certain about this but pulling cloth wrapper wires out of the ceiling makes me think where such chemicals…

I've never owned a house old enough to be rewired, my previous house was built in 1992, the current house was built in 2017. That said, as far as I am aware, SIMpull does not contain PFAS, which is the slippery coating on Romex wiring. I don't know what the off-brand companies do, though.

For data cabling, which I did install myself in both houses, I looked up material safety data sheets (MSDS) for any products I purchased before buying them. The wiring I used also does not contain any PFAS in its insulation.

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