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NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

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61–70 of 112 posts

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#61

I never understood the fear of fans wrongly criticizing teams/players/coaches based on the All-22 tape. All other sports make their own equivalent of it available allowing fans to see every mistake made by every player. As far as I know it hasn't resulted in any worse sportsmanship. Football in particular has always had Monday morning quarterbacks and always will. The media has always had access to the All-22 tape an…

    All other sports make their own equivalent of it available allowing fans to see every mistake made by every player. 
What other sports do that?

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#62
post #19

The argument in this article is just ridiculous. Handwringing about giving fans more information because they might not interpret it correctly? Breaking news: A lot of people are already plenty wrong with the current amount of information. They'll be wrong with less, they'll be wrong with more, they'll be wrong if the info level stays the same. This is therefore a null argument.

Yeah, the article was pretty weak, I agree. The author was clearly reaching for something to write about the subject.

But the NFL opening up this footage is bad-ass!

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#63

I've thought for a while now that the NFL network - their TV presence, the website - is the future of how sports will be. It's an incredibly good product if you're a football fan (as I am - go Niners). The TV channel is well done for the fan, a mix of informality with information - bunch of faces that make us nostalgic due to their past achievements combined with solid anchors who have personality but don't try to ou…

NFL Redzone is the greatest innovation in sports in the last 20 years, if not ever. I didn't watch a single game on FOX or CBS last season and I won't this year either. I honestly can't believe that the NFL doesn't charge a big subscription fee for it.

[1] http://redzonetv.nfl.com/

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#64
post #50

There's already a budding aftermarket... A gif that demos why Pittsburgh Steelers tight end Heath Miller is such a great run blocker: http://cdn1.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1198471/steelers3.g...

That is not All-22 footage; it's just standard HDTV footage. All-22 footage is from "overhead" (at least as high as safely possible in a stadium) and shows about 2/3 of the field at all times. The All-22 footage does not have the onscreen extras such as down and distance nor the generated 1st down yellow line.

Also, you can see all 22 players. :)

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#65
post #18

This is very exciting, as there's a lot of strategy to American football that isn't plainly visible when the camera just follows the ball as it does on television. It's not going to showcase technique very well, but it'll go a long way towards explaining e.g. why some wide receivers are always open, why some players always seem to be in the right position to interrupt a pass, etc. I'd actually find it very interestin…

> However, I'm not sure it's of wide interest to HN. As far as I can tell, I'm the only one here who likes NFL football. You'd probably be surprised. I know I was surprised when I got to college and found more football fans amongst my engineer friends than my humanities friends. It turns out the game is very complex and deep and discussing strategy can be quite interesting. I wasn't a football fan when I arrived in c…

I think the biggest difference between "normal" football fans and the football enthusiasts like me and the ones I met in my engineering classes boils down to what reasons you enjoy watching the game and, perhaps with overlap between the groups, what level you're paying attention to the actual plays being called and run.

Most people love football because they identify with a team, and almost exclusively watch games involving their team, and aren't really paying too much attention to the strategy. They know the rules and the different types of plays, but they are really there for the tribal passion that a rough contact sport like football tends to evoke.

On the flip side, I don't actively seek to watch football games for a single team; if I happen to go somewhere that's playing a football game on TV, I love watching it, and don't care who wins, because I just enjoy the strategic and tactical decisions being made on and off the field. Watching a play unfold and seeing the snap decisions being made and the reactions from both teams to the changing field is truly fascinating.

I do still follow the results of my old hometown team, the Cincinnati Bengals, but more out of humorous pity at how terrible they are year after year than out of any identification with them or desire to see them win.

But hey, maybe I'm just ascribing what I want to see from the data, and maybe my opinion of "normal" people is skewed from growing up in Ohio compared to somewhere else in the country.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#67
post #27

What's weird about professional sports is that the major franchises seem to think they're doing what they do for their own sake instead of entertaining their customers.

That's no weirder than lawyers thinking they're doing what they do to win a case rather than to achieve justice. The NFL entertains customers by being a serious, competitive league, just as criminal justice is supposed to work via an adversarial system. (Before anyone else points it out, let's just say the NFL works FAR better than the criminal justice system....)

Don't forget: There's an incentive to win your case SLOOOOOWWWWLY, when you're paid by the hour.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#68
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, I'm not sure it's of wide interest to HN. As far as I can tell, I'm the only one here who likes NFL football. You'd probably be surprised. I know I was surprised when I got to college and found more football fans amongst my engineer friends than my humanities friends. It turns out the game is very complex and deep and discussing strategy can be quite interesting. I wasn't a football fan when I arrived in c…

I think the biggest difference between "normal" football fans and the football enthusiasts like me and the ones I met in my engineering classes boils down to what reasons you enjoy watching the game and, perhaps with overlap between the groups, what level you're paying attention to the actual plays being called and run. Most people love football because they identify with a team, and almost exclusively watch games in…

I have enjoyed Football for a while -- good sport, fun to watch.

I REALLY got into Football a few years back when I hopped on the fantasy football bandwagon -- a lot of strategy (projections, history, weekly match up, e.g., do I start Tom Brady against Baltimore or RG3 against StL?), statistics, a random element (injuries, x-factor players breaking out, coaches benching people), etc. There is quite a bit of crossover between that and many other strategy games.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#69

This is very exciting, as there's a lot of strategy to American football that isn't plainly visible when the camera just follows the ball as it does on television. It's not going to showcase technique very well, but it'll go a long way towards explaining e.g. why some wide receivers are always open, why some players always seem to be in the right position to interrupt a pass, etc. I'd actually find it very interestin…

Are there many sports based startups? I'd love to learn more about some.

Re: NFL opens Pandora's Box by offering All-22 tape to public

#70
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same argument was used to defend closed access journals: the public can't be trusted to understand raw scientific research.

Anytime you open up anything like this, you force the "experts" to prove they're actually experts... and that's often difficult.

Very true. I am a die-hard NFL fan, and I can honestly say that there is very little useful 'expert analysis' presented to the public, at least in terms of predicting future results (which is the holy grail of analysis, at least from my perspective, as a fan and something interested in gambling).

Before every season, all the 'experts' come to a general consensus on which teams should be good, and which should not. They are always nearly identical to the results of the previous season. Yet statistics from the past decade have shown us that there is a nearly 50% annual turnover among the teams who qualify for the playoffs (the top 12 out of 32 teams). Only recently have some experts begun to at least attempt to follow this trend, but for the most part, pre-season predictions are laughably conservative. They tend to just remember who was good last year, and assume they'll be good this year, even though it's been proven year after year that just doesn't happen.

I like to follow sports because it's one of the arenas in which you can clearly measure so many statistics and the accuracy of predictions. Of course the nature of random events (injuries mostly) is the cause for much of this chaos, but I felt like the NFL was a great example of experts being overwhelmingly.. well.. underwhelming, and observably so.

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