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3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

bloomberg.com

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Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#21

Post by im3w1l »

myrmidon wrote: post #16
yapyap wrote: post #3

I’m sure they’ll get off legally (just donate to the sitting president) but for the people affected by their practices they will be hard pressed to turn their legacy around.

I think it is incorrect to blame this on a currently corrupt president. Counter-hypothesis: This is a systemic issue. Decisionmakers and shareholders that cause harm face very little consequences if their behavior does not violate the letter of the law. Compare the leaded gas debacle: US lead industry suppressed knowledge about harmful effects, and even directly targeted researchers with smear-campaigns and lawfare f…

I think it's even more systemic. The public knows about the harm and they are ok with it. They think the benefits outweigh the risks.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#22

Post by calvinmorrison »

Nasrudith wrote: post #17
calvinmorrison wrote: post #7

limited liability corporations are the root of all evil.

Why do you want to arrest grandma for owning Enron stock?

I certainly do. The stock market would have fewer bubbles if risks were born by the owners!

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#23

Post by lm28469 »

ck2 wrote: post #19
starwatch wrote: post #13

If you want more context on PFAS, I recommend this Veritasium video [0]. It expanded on my usual thought of "PFAS = bad," explaining why non-stick cookware is probably fine while other forms of PFAS are problematic. The video also covers the environmental damage caused by PFAS manufacturing. [0]: https://youtu.be/SC2eSujzrUY

skiers have been putting teflon wax on their skis for decades now it's in the snow, ground, and water-supply forever

You forgot rain. Maybe one day people will remember we're just sharing one small planet, the air, the water, the food supplies, ... all the shit you dump/burn ends up in your food or water eventually

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#24

Post by pengaru »

lm28469 wrote: post #23
ck2 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

skiers have been putting teflon wax on their skis for decades now it's in the snow, ground, and water-supply forever

You forgot rain. Maybe one day people will remember we're just sharing one small planet, the air, the water, the food supplies, ... all the shit you dump/burn ends up in your food or water eventually

> all the shit you dump/burn ends up in your food or water eventually

but most that shit doesn't survive the journey intact, being out in the elements and bombarded by the sun isn't kind to most things

hence the focus on "forever chemicals"

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#25

Post by ruined »

khaki54 wrote: post #11
calvinmorrison wrote: post #7

limited liability corporations are the root of all evil.

without Limited Liability Companies, a civil matter as simple as a copyright lawsuit could permenently bankrupt a small business and take the owners house and all their assets. I don't agree with companies wantonly externalizing their costs onto the environment or the populace such as Dow or 3M poisoning the entire planet. Criminal liability never goes away for serious crimes, whether sole-proprietership, LLC, or Cor…

tort and copyright would be different if LLCs didn't exist

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#26

Post by Isamu »

jmyeet wrote: post #6

Let's compare to Purdue and the Sacklers, shall we? Purdue owns a huge piece of the responsibility for the opioid epidemic. They created OxyContin and lied about it's addictiveness. They are probably responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people at this point. The Sacklers were heavily involved in all aspects of this and became billionaires because of it. Nobody has been criminally charged. The govern…

I agree there can be better accountability but China is not a shining example of anti-corruption, there it is used to destroy your political enemies and to increase your political power. Here the issue is probably that the political parties shield their rich donors.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#27

Post by ruined »

Nasrudith wrote: post #17
calvinmorrison wrote: post #7

limited liability corporations are the root of all evil.

Why do you want to arrest grandma for owning Enron stock?

if LLCs didn't exist, clearly the stock market would operate differently

would Enron have been Enron if it wasn't an LLC?

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#28

Post by jMyles »

lm28469 wrote: post #15
khaki54 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

without Limited Liability Companies, a civil matter as simple as a copyright lawsuit could permenently bankrupt a small business and take the owners house and all their assets. I don't agree with companies wantonly externalizing their costs onto the environment or the populace such as Dow or 3M poisoning the entire planet. Criminal liability never goes away for serious crimes, whether sole-proprietership, LLC, or Cor…

> copyright Another thing we should flush down the drain to begin with

No flushing is necessary; it is conceptually fading on the internet whether the state acknowledges it or not.

It'll be great if some solemn elder-statesmen step up and read the writing on the wall instead of throwing more tantrums, but I think it's beyond obvious now that the internet will not abide copyright.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#29

Post by Zigurd »

pengaru wrote: post #24
lm28469 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot rain. Maybe one day people will remember we're just sharing one small planet, the air, the water, the food supplies, ... all the shit you dump/burn ends up in your food or water eventually

> all the shit you dump/burn ends up in your food or water eventually but most that shit doesn't survive the journey intact, being out in the elements and bombarded by the sun isn't kind to most things hence the focus on "forever chemicals"

Future archaeologists will wonder that we first fouled our nest from edge to edge with lead in gasoline, and then there's that radioactive layer, and following immediately after the forever chemicals layer.

Re: 3M May Escape Toxic Chemical, PFAS Manufacturing Legacy

#30

Post by jMyles »

Nasrudith wrote: post #17
calvinmorrison wrote: post #7

limited liability corporations are the root of all evil.

Why do you want to arrest grandma for owning Enron stock?

Clearly the system by which "grandma" owns a small part of a criminal organization is flawed.

Whether criminal liability needs to flow to individual owners I don't know, but I'm sure someone has done the thinking here about how to make this less insane.

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